What is woman?

[Arcangelo]

Things are getting really, really crazy...

[Michael Jackson]

??lol this woman is really stupid

However, I still think that you shouldn't consider a 2 weeks old spearm-egg hybrid a "child." We should just set a clear line, like a few months maybe, after which abortion should be considered murder.

[Leo Gura]

Two can play this game.

If it's wrong to a kill a child, is it not wrong to kill an ant?

What is the principle distinction between a human and ant? What's the difference? Why is it okay in the later cases and not the former cases?

[Loba]

Life has a divine spark in it from the moment of conception.
The solution is sex and parental education in schools; free contraceptives.  
You can't stop people from having abortions, but you can give them the tools where it won't happen as frequently.  
That's the only solution, really, for either side.

On ants - you shouldn't kill them, sometimes their placement indicates a greater message that they're just crawling right across...

Edited May 29, 2022 by Loba

[Michael Jackson]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

What is the principle distinction between a human and ant? What's the difference? Why is it okay in the later cases and not the former cases?

@Leo Gura You should watch your episode on survival. Our survival agenda informs our moral values. That's why every species considers itself to be most important;)

[Arcangelo]

Can a man get pregnant?

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, Michael Jackson said:

@Leo Gura You should watch your episode on survival. Our survival agenda informs our moral values. That's why every species considers itself to be most important;)

By that logic abortion is just survival

The only species I know that considers itself important is humans.

[puporing]

29 minutes ago, Arcangelo said:

Can a man get pregnant?

Is it possible that she meant a biological woman who identifies as a man? That is an option.

And if not. Using her as an example is still twisting and skirting around the issue.

Edited May 29, 2022 by puporing

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Arcangelo said:

Can a man get pregnant?

The issue is one of relative definitions. Who gets to define what "man" is? Our definitions are not absolute. That's what you're missing.

That video is an example of Blue & Green talking past each other.

[UnbornTao]

I mean, biologically speaking, the distinction we refer to as woman is the one who can get pregnant. 

If we're talking gender, that's up to society and the individual.

But of course the biological option is that only "females" get pregnant. Call it that or by any other name. A lion or a "male" ape can't get pregnant as far as I know.

[Arcangelo]

31 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That video is an example of Blue & Green talking past each other.

Yes, but why they don't say something like: "Well if a biological woman (someone with 2X chromosomes) identifies as a man, then the answer is yes.''

And I agree. Gender and sex are 2 different things.

[Leo Gura]

Even definitions of sex are relative.

[zurew]

2 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

I mean, biologically speaking, the distinction we refer to as woman is the one who can get pregnant. 

Yes, but even if we were to use this definition it would be problematic, because what about woman who can't get pregnant because of some biological factors. It's not always the man's sperm quality why a woman can't get pregnant.

It's almost impossible to define what is a man  or what is  a woman  , because there always will be some outliers.

Even if we were to use the 'having 2x chromosome' definition is problematic because of this: 

Quote

In females who have Turner syndrome, one copy of the X chromosome is missing, partially missing or changed.

Also:

Quote

Most males have XY chromosomes and most women have XX chromosomes. But there are girls and women who have XY chromosomes. This can happen, for example, when a girl has androgen insensitivity syndrome

 

[Bobby_2021]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Two can play this game.

If it's wrong to a kill a child, is it not wrong to kill an ant?

What is the principle distinction between a human and ant? What's the difference? Why is it okay in the later cases and not the former cases?

It is wrong to kill an ant or a child. 

It's all about how much you care.

You care about a human, you don't care about an ant.

That's the only valid distinction you can bring up at this point. 

[Arcangelo]

54 minutes ago, BenG said:

Needing to emphasize that they're a "biological woman (someone with 2X chromosomes)" in this case is just a sneaky mask for unconscious transphobia. 

No.

This insanity needs to stop. There is something called reality.

[Bobby_2021]

56 minutes ago, BenG said:

I genuinely fail to see what the problem is. Where is the insanity? 

"What is a woman?"

I don't know.

"Is a transwoman a woman?"

Yes.

"Then what is a woman?" 

I don't know.

[zurew]

19 minutes ago, BenG said:

“Woman” is a socially constructed category, and being in the category “woman” only depends on identification with it. 

Even though it is impossible to make an absolute definition of a woman, labeling and making categories can be useful depending on the context.

We could say that money is a social construct , even though we know that, we still collectively play a game where we project some value on it.

 

Edited May 29, 2022 by zurew

[Bobby_2021]

43 minutes ago, BenG said:

I don’t understand. What are you trying to say?

“Woman” is a socially constructed category, and being in the category “woman” only depends on identification with it. 

Helicopters are also a socially constructed category.

Does being classified as a Apache Twin Turboshaft attack helicopter also depends solely upon identification with it?

Did you verify it with the helicopter, whether it identifies as a hippopotamus or a helicopter?

Or maybe you are confused as fuck.

It's ok if you call transwoman, as a biological man who identifies as a woman. That actually makes sense. We can accommodate such people.

But if you think you are literally a woman after having a dick, simply because you choose to identify as such is lunacy. 

People identify with insane shit all the time.

That's why We don't build the world around identifications. We build the world around observations.

Understand the difference.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Bobby_2021

[zurew]

19 minutes ago, BenG said:

It’s a problem in the case of gender because people are forced into categories that they may not fit into.

It becomes abusive.

Yeah i understand that, but as an outsider I can't possibly know how someone identifies him/her-self as. The only thing i can do, is to assume based on a certain set of physical characteristics.

In the past,gender pronouns were used to indentify and categorize sexes and not how someone identifies him/her self as.

[Bobby_2021]

33 minutes ago, BenG said:

@Bobby_2021

Did you seriously just go attack helicopter on me!? ?

????