Dear Leo, please make a blog post on Don Beck’s recent passing

[Bobby_2021]

17 hours ago, puporing said:

Can it be put up now that he's passed?

I think that's a good idea.

I have the audio version of it somehow on my lap.

[Thought Art]

The audio is still on youtube

good luck taking any of leos videos down lol

[TK2021]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You can create whatever forums you want, just don't leech off this forum to do it.

I’d like to clarify that I’m not leeching this forum, rather trying to add value to it on your terms. The point is that you are leeching Beck’s idea. And I’m pointing out your hypocrisy. Personally, I sort of like what you did with SD. But then again, Beck thought that your interpretation of turquoise was dangerously immature, so he did his best to stop it from proliferating and ruining his life's work from his POV.

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's not really my problem. That's an issue general to how people apply SD. I have warned against this trap many times.

The irony is Beck himself misused it.

It is of course also your problem. Warning against traps is just a cop-out. If you don’t want to take responsibility, you have to present it in such a way that people don’t fall into traps. Which is impossible. So just admit that you are somewhat responsible. At least to yourself.

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's some sick shit to say to me.

I didn’t intend to come off as mean, you told me yourself a while back:

On 04/11/2021 at 3:37 AM, Leo Gura said:

If only you knew the manipulations I had to do to create Actualized.org

You would vomit in your mouth.

Clickbait is child's play.

[Danioover9000]

@TK2021 , @Leo Gura , drop the feud between you two, don't make me to remind you two this drama is low quality, too.

   And @Husseinisdoingfine, this is a duplicate thread, stop pretending to not be threading a complicated drama.

   

Edited May 30, 2022 by Danioover9000

[Husseinisdoingfine]

On 5/28/2022 at 9:32 PM, Leo Gura said:

Calling Ken Wilber stage Red is not perfectly reasonable. 

[Gesundheit2]

1 hour ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

I'm sure someone as Red as Wilber will accept the challenge now

[Epikur]

1 hour ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

That sounds almost like science

[Jacob Morres]

19 hours ago, TK2021 said:

I didn’t intend to come off as mean, you told me yourself a while back:

On 11/3/2021 at 9:37 PM, Leo Gura said:

always funny when people say, "im just being honest" lol 

pepega 

ur ugly as fuckkkk. what?? im just being honest

Edited May 30, 2022 by Jacob Morres

[Husseinisdoingfine]

On 5/28/2022 at 7:53 PM, Leo Gura said:

his support for Trump

As for his endorsement of Trump, boomers gonna boom. 

[Husseinisdoingfine]

I still humbly request that Leo make the blog post. Come on… It’s just one post. Is that too much to ask for? Can’t you put your disagreements aside to celebrate a man who recently passed away.

Don Beck gave this community so much! You and this community use and talk about SDi so much! And you’re going to let such petty ness prevent you from writing a simple short blog post.

Also, you have no evidence that specifically he struck down your turquoise video, could have been someone on his team.

Edit: Be sure to use a nice picture of him when writing the post.

Also, I remembered this neat video of him:

 

Edited May 30, 2022 by Husseinisdoingfine

[Danioover9000]

   If this is the kind of shit that happens when a famous person dies, or when someone that has gave a positive impact to the world in some way, or was a good innovative creator, count me out of thw journey. Maybe because of how the OP has framed Don Beck's passing, how the topic and users in general made it about Don Beck politics of being a Trump Supporter, that he trademarked Spiral Dynamics, mislabbled Ken Wilbur, that he's getting shade and hate. It's really interesting to see how we're more interested in seeing the faults of this dead person than the good he may have left behind.

   Let's start over, change the framework and introduce a hypothetical to help you understand why I find this dynamic disturbing in this thread. Maybe, if this is too challenging to understand intellectually and emotionally because Don Beck's a boomer trump Supporter, substitute Don Beck for your role modal in life, and see how you feel when that idol of yours passes. Now how do you feel when people give shade onto your idol? Too difficult to imagine? How about your family member that died, and somebody gives shade to that loved one of yours? Doesn't feel nice, does it? This is what I'm pointing out in you when you have a knee jerk reaction to give hate, and be petty and ignore the good of what the person has done. That's pettiness. Not a nice feeling is it? The only reason this is acceptable now is because you don't have a close relationship with Beck, but when someone close to you dies, it doesn't feel right. Imagine still talking like this in this thread, but Beck's loved ones and friends saw what you wrote. How'd you think they feel? How'd you feel, if I gave you a camera recording showing what you wrote and said about Don Beck, and showing their reactions to you, and showing your reactions to them? Doesn't look good does it?

   

Edited May 30, 2022 by Danioover9000

[Jodistrict]

In my opinion, spiral dynamics is just another grand narrative laden with its own values that oversimplifies history.  You can google “spiral dynamics is a pseudo-science” and make your own judgment.  If there is evidence to support spiral dynamics, where is it?  

Of course they are going to protect their intellectual property because the model is being used in profit generating businesses.  

And it doesn’t surprise me that he supports Trump, Bush, and the Republicans because those values and prejudices are baked into his model, i.e. (the descriptions of the beige and purple stages).   

 

“Spiral Dynamics has been criticized by some as appearing to be like a cult, with undue prominence given to the business and intellectual property concerns of its leading advocates.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_Dynamics#Criticism_and_limitations

 

[BlueOak]

On models. People adapt models all the time. I get that he's just passed so there would be sympathy naturally for wanting his work preserved, but that doesn't mean the way he's conceptualized life needs to remain stagnant from now on. 

Things don't remain static for long, if a model doesn't adapt to the changing conditions of consciousness then it's done.

All that said, Leo would eventually benefit from devising his own model and having that become the thing people were referencing in the future, even if it took a lot of inspiration from this one.

[Dan502]

What I personally like about Spiral Dynamics is how it reminds me that the views of those with whom I disagree might be in part seen as a consequence of the development of the groups to which they belong. 

And me too.

It has sometimes helped me relate to others.

[Danioover9000]

@BlueOak

18 hours ago, BlueOak said:

On models. People adapt models all the time. I get that he's just passed so there would be sympathy naturally for wanting his work preserved, but that doesn't mean the way he's conceptualized life needs to remain stagnant from now on. 

Things don't remain static for long, if a model doesn't adapt to the changing conditions of consciousness then it's done.

All that said, Leo would eventually benefit from devising his own model and having that become the thing people were referencing in the future, even if it took a lot of inspiration from this one.

   And that model would too fade away with the changing times.

[LordFall]

On 5/29/2022 at 9:40 AM, How to be wise said:

@Leo Gura Taking other people’s models and changing it to fit your opinion is definitely not something that should be done. If you have a different view from Beck, you should use your own model, not take his and ride on it. 

That's a ridiculous take on both what happened and how these things should work. Leo prefaced each of his videos by crediting their work and did literally say he would put his subjective opinion on it.

That like if someone drew a map and you said thank you for drawing the map, I found it quite useful but I noticed that actually this part of the map was inaccurate and if you guys are looking to go in that direction I would suggest you take X and Y path instead. 

In what world would it make sense to not do that? And also, as @_Archangel_ said, that's how any model or any innovation in science has ever been achieved. Humans building on other human's work. 

Also, wasn't Clare Graves the one that really built the model and Beck just studied with him? Seems like Beck never managed to get very far up the stages and has a lot of ego attachment towards it. His understanding of the stages below Yellow seems quite sound but anything beyond that he not only hasn't reached but also rejects. 

Keep in mind people that it's not because you make a car(or have some part in making a car) that you're gonna be the one that's great at driving it. 

Edited May 31, 2022 by LordFall

[Danioover9000]

@Dan502

6 hours ago, Dan502 said:

What I personally like about Spiral Dynamics is how it reminds me that the views of those with whom I disagree might be in part seen as a consequence of the development of the groups to which they belong. 

And me too.

It has sometimes helped me relate to others.

   Yes, the model does help re-contextualize disagreements and differences between me and others.

[BlueOak]

20 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

In my opinion, spiral dynamics is just another grand narrative laden with its own values that oversimplifies history.  You can google “spiral dynamics is a pseudo-science” and make your own judgment.  If there is evidence to support spiral dynamics, where is it?  

Of course they are going to protect their intellectual property because the model is being used in profit generating businesses.  

And it doesn’t surprise me that he supports Trump, Bush, and the Republicans because those values and prejudices are baked into his model, i.e. (the descriptions of the beige and purple stages).   

 

“Spiral Dynamics has been criticized by some as appearing to be like a cult, with undue prominence given to the business and intellectual property concerns of its leading advocates.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_Dynamics#Criticism_and_limitations

 

@Jodistrict
Oversimplifying history is a necessity if it's going into a few pages of a model. 

The evidence to support spiral dynamics is in modeling human progression throughout history. How accurately it does it is what can be debated.

The word cult gets thrown around like a wet newspaper these days. Also known as anything that deviates from the norm with sufficient intellectual reasoning or spiritual belief behind it. It's only a problem when people lose their ability to critically think for themselves, and start looking to an individual to decide their life for them, but then that would be the case if someone were especially lost in life.

I agree it's somewhat flawed in that the entire thing has a collectivist bias, but it does allow for things like human history to be shown as part of consciousness development, and the collectivist/individualist dynamic to be expressed in a way it hasn't been elsewhere. Up until maybe 5-10 years ago, I hadn't seen collectivist and individualist dynamics discussed at all, or even recognized as the driving forces between many things like disagreements in society, spiritual fractures, troubles in relationships, and impasses in development, or wars being fought.
 

37 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@BlueOak

   And that model would too fade away with the changing times.

Of course. That's life. Everything is formless eventually.
@Danioover9000

[LordFall]

On 5/29/2022 at 9:44 PM, TK2021 said:

I’d like to clarify that I’m not leeching this forum, rather trying to add value to it on your terms. The point is that you are leeching Beck’s idea. And I’m pointing out your hypocrisy. Personally, I sort of like what you did with SD. But then again, Beck thought that your interpretation of turquoise was dangerously immature, so he did his best to stop it from proliferating and ruining his life's work from his POV.

It is of course also your problem. Warning against traps is just a cop-out. If you don’t want to take responsibility, you have to present it in such a way that people don’t fall into traps. Which is impossible. So just admit that you are somewhat responsible. At least to yourself.

I didn’t intend to come off as mean, you told me yourself a while back:

I don't think you've studied the content on this platform as your understanding of it and even the basic concept that you use seem half-baked. 

The concept of leeching relates to taking from something without adding value to it. Not only did Leo add value to it in terms of value(I guess that point is subjective if you believe that his interpretation of it did or did not add depth to it) but he also gave them massive exposure which is pretty undeniable.

Also, your critique that people now use the SD model for their ego gratification is strangely put. First of all, if you can't stop that negative side-effect but it also adds value then it's a clear positive. It is also wrong though because people already by default use things like status, money, or intelligence to compare themselves against others. If because of Leo now they use levels of conscious development then that's a clear win. 

I would recommend watching some of the Actualized.org videos from around 2016 so that you can start the journey of understanding these ideas properly. 

Edited May 31, 2022 by LordFall

[Spiral]

While SD is a technically a scientific model. That doesn’t mean that it is considered accurate by the scientific community. It’s criticized for it’s limited perspective among other things. 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Spiral