Dear Leo, please make a blog post on Don Beck’s recent passing

[Husseinisdoingfine]

^

Everyone else bump the thread so he can see.

[Leo Gura]

Not sure what to say about it. I have mixed feeling about him because of his support for Trump, denouncement of Ken Wilber, and trademark striking my Turquoise video.

[puporing]

44 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

and trademark striking my Turquoise video.

Ah didn't know that was why it was taken down. Bummer!

Can it be put up now that he's passed? I'm guessing no...

Edited May 29, 2022 by puporing

[Husseinisdoingfine]

55 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

denouncement of Ken Wilber, and trademark striking my Turquoise video.

His criticisms of Ken Wilber were perfectly reasonable and your turquoise video was rather misleading and twisted to fit the Actualized brand.

[Leo Gura]

48 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

His criticisms of Ken Wilber were perfectly reasonable and your turquoise video was rather misleading and twisted to fit the Actualized brand.

Yeah, well, I have a right to twist things however I want. I twisted it for a reason: because SD is misleading when it comes to understanding the highest levels of human consciousness. I am not loyal to any model or to Beck. I teach whatever I feel is most helpful for people to grow to their highest level. Beck does not get to say what I can and cannot say about SD. He could make his own videos if he wanted. And trademarking the name of a scientific model is a dick move.

Imagine if I started teaching some new perspective on General Relativity and then Albert Einstein trademark striked me for it.

Calling Ken Wilber stage Red is not perfectly reasonable. Beck had some serious biases. I am not the only one who twisted SD. Ken Wilber felt the need to do so too because he saw its limits at the higher stages.

[Ulax]

Dafuq. How could he support trump. I saw his blog post, where he says Trump would be better than biden. I get it if he sees the democrats as doing something that will provoke a long term backlash from teh republicans, or something else rather counter-intuitive. But if it was a claim based on just the short term (i.e. period in office) status of the USA I'm at a loss.

I couldn't find any elaborated arguments from Beck on this, either.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Ulax said:

I couldn't find any elaborated arguments from Beck on this, either

Boomers gonna boom

[Ulax]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Boomers gonna boom

lol.

Was expecting Beck to be a bit above the boomer level of acting in the world tbh. 

[jbeckk]

@Leo Gura I agree with you that people should be free to twist models or whatever but I find it very important that the people doing so are explicitly telling their audience that they are also adding their subjective opinion on it. 

 

Also, I do think that Ken Wilber has not only made contributions to Spiral Dynamics, but also added things to the theory that really changed its original meaning. The whole idea of seeing the spiral as a way of self-development (aka higher better) was not present in Graves original work. As far as I am concerned, he saw the different stages of consciousness inherently connected to their environment and the new ones emerge out of necessity, not simply out of progress/improvement. That there are ever higher spiritual levels might very well be true, but this model encompasses so much more than just spiritual development. 

Here are some resources that in my opinion undermine this point: 

 

[TK2021]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yeah, well, I have a right to twist things however I want.

It's not cool to take someones life’s work and twist it according to your biases to a huge audience.

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I teach whatever I feel is most helpful for people to grow to their highest level.

Just because you think something is helpful, doesn’t make it so. Most people who have listened to your take on Spiral Dynamics have just made it some ego-enhancement, where they misapply themselves too high etc. completely misunderstanding and misusing it. You must be aware of this.

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Imagine if I started teaching some new perspective on General Relativity and then Albert Einstein trademark striked me for it.

If Albert Einstein’s General Relativity for some reason got as little attention as Spiral Dynamics, and then some guy who sold his soul to get Youtube views comes in and distorts Al’s work to the masses, Al would be pissed the fuck off.

But that’s not even a good example because General Relativity can’t really be misapplied by your average guy in a harmful way in daily life.

See, Don Beck saw your teachings as potentially dangerously immature. Just as you see the people who try to create a separate forum from your teachings.

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Calling Ken Wilber stage Red is not perfectly reasonable. Beck had some serious biases. I am not the only one who twisted SD. Ken Wilber felt the need to do so too because he saw its limits at the higher stages.

In his books Ken certainly doesn't seem "stage Red", or what I've seen of him. However, there's also lots of accounts of him unnecessarily acting like that in real life. 

[Yarco]

This reminds me of when people get super sad over a famous musician dying but they had never even listened to their music until after they died. 

Who had actually heard the name Don Beck before today, even if you are familiar with Spiral Dynamics? I hadn't

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, TK2021 said:

It's not cool to take someones life’s work and twist it according to your biases to a huge audience.

I interpret models to suit my needs and my audience's needs.

If you don't like my take on Spiral Dynamics, don't listen to it.

3 hours ago, TK2021 said:

Most people who have listened to your take on Spiral Dynamics have just made it some ego-enhancement, where they misapply themselves too high etc. completely misunderstanding and misusing it. You must be aware of this.

That's not really my problem. That's an issue general to how people apply SD. I have warned against this trap many times.

The irony is Beck himself misused it.

3 hours ago, TK2021 said:

and then some guy who sold his soul to get Youtube views

That's some sick shit to say to me.

3 hours ago, TK2021 said:

See, Don Beck saw your teachings as potentially dangerously immature. Just as you see the people who try to create a separate forum from your teachings.

The difference is, if someone creates their own forum on their own dime, I will not come take their forum down.

You can create whatever forums you want, just don't leech off this forum to do it.

[Gesundheit2]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

SD is misleading when it comes to understanding the highest levels of human consciousness.

SD is a scientific model that is based on real world data.

[How to be wise]

@Leo Gura Taking other people’s models and changing it to fit your opinion is definitely not something that should be done. If you have a different view from Beck, you should use your own model, not take his and ride on it. 

[puporing]

29 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

@Leo Gura Taking other people’s models and changing it to fit your opinion is definitely not something that should be done. If you have a different view from Beck, you should use your own model, not take his and ride on it. 

But then you'll miss out on another perspective which might be more helpful to some than the original. 

People don't realize that nothing comes from nothing. Like creative works, they are generally inspired by what has been done in the past. To think that one can create something from nothing is absolutist thinking and just not true. Language had to be created for me to write these words. 

Edited May 29, 2022 by puporing

[puporing]

Maybe I'm stating the obvious... but that also seems like a misapplication of trademark striking. Literally the fact that Beck only did it to the video where it diverged the most from his model was the one that got taken down says that it was not a 'trademark strike'. Otherwise he should've taken down the whole damn series.

[Danioover9000]

   The disrespect in this thread is abysmal. A person has passed away, and here we are focused on talking about him and his work in a negative light? Everyone has human faults, but they also have good sides to them. Let's take the time and instead of talking about him trademarking Spiral dynamics or siding with Trump or miscatagorizing Ken Wilber, let's talking about what good he did in this world, like co creating the spiral dynamics modal first.

   Let's give a minute of silence please.

[Danioover9000]

Rest in peace Don Beck?

[Egodeathrow]

@How to be wise that is exactly how cultural science works, It is all accumulation of info from other people and cross referencing of other peoples past proof 

[_Archangel_]

The poeple annoyed by the fact that Leo gave his own twist and interpretation on SD should educate themselves on the history of science.