Truly, why is the education system so entirely CORRUPT? Any explanation!?

[charlie cho]

I was just having a dialogue with a historian in South Korea (specializes in Nations/Late medieval Korean dynasty, researches in depth about war and national security because of his specialty) and I saw in his speech in a dialogue between me and him how bitter he was about the academic system. He's famous in this country, possibly the most famous as a "celebrity"? historian, and I was surprised how a person who got a doctorate degree in the top 3 best universities here, was a university professor in history would say such a thing about where he essentially came from, academia. 

Yes, I always knew the education system was corrupt, but hearing this from a person from the inside, coming from the best schools, coming from a highly respected professor, hearing him on first-hand truly angry about the whole thing really imprinted in me how mushed up must the education system be for him to complain like this? 

Is there a history book, an in depth research paper about how the current education system came about? I want to see how it turned out to be quite dehumanizing and how education made children into cogs in machines. 

What is your opinion about the education system? Why is it good? And why is it so ugly? 

Maybe, I've only experienced bad ones, 

Edited May 26, 2022 by charlie cho

[Philipp]

What is corrupt about the education system? Do you mean shools and /or universities? 

[Rokazulu]

The difference between education and indoctrination is a fine line, and has been a philosophical debate for thousands of years.

It is no coincidence your acquaintance is a historian.

[BlueOak]

Diasterously financial intelligence isn't taught at all. Social Intelligence, for example, healthy relationships, working, and social relations are not covered. Emotional Intelligence isn't even mentioned. These things alone make everything else that is taught potentially pointless. You can end up a poverty-stricken, social outcast, who has the emotional IQ of a wooden spoon, yet have a genius-level IQ and a degree. Then people wonder why everyone ends up diagnosed with social or emotional disorders, and self medicating? Well its because one aspect of their mind or life has been magnified so greatly for 20 years of education day in day out, and the other left behind at the starting line, or at best glimpsed through busy parents (who themselves were never educated in these areas) or from the TV.

Let's do some specifics.

Kids not having long enough to be kids. Its got very slightly better in 'pre school' here, but even then its stupid how tightly controlled kids are.
Targets are pushed at the expense of adaptive and experiential learning. Exams, meaning one day out several thousand you were in education decides the value of those thousands of days, are utterly archaic. 
Minds are entrenched in a flawed system of thinking, then punished when they try to improve this system. Kicked off when they draw too much attention to it.
Individuals are not nurtured toward their actual potential and instead have to spend years on subjects they will never need or use.
Discipline isn't taught in a disciplined manner. So nobody learns it. People use emotion to teach what needs to be controlled. This is a problem in almost all cases where discipline is being taught, even to a pet. If you are shouting at something you are not teaching a person, an animal, or child discipline. You are teaching them emotion, anxiety, anger etc.

I've been out of education for a long long while, maybe some of this has improved. From my understanding kids are still compressed into flawed collective thinking only with less of an authoritarian lean. If it was an environmentally conscious, and socially and/or emotionally intelligent collective that would be great. It isn't.

*Oh and how to be successful in life, should be a course in every curriculum. 
**I keep wanting to add to this. Kids should be able to try all subjects easily, then based on performance over a year and their interest, pick a handful (or more) to specialise in. They should be able to swap between these until they find their way. Rather than wait till they are 18 to try 500 jobs, and maybe if they are lucky come across the one career that is right for them.

Edited May 26, 2022 by BlueOak

[Danioover9000]

@BlueOak

32 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

Diasterously financial intelligence isn't taught at all. Social Intelligence, for example, healthy relationships, working, and social relations are not covered. Emotional Intelligence isn't even mentioned. These things alone make everything else that is taught potentially pointless. You can end up a poverty-stricken, social outcast, who has the emotional IQ of a wooden spoon, yet have a genius-level IQ and a degree. Then people wonder why everyone ends up diagnosed with social or emotional disorders, and self medicating? Well its because one aspect of their mind or life has been magnified so greatly for 20 years of education day in day out, and the other left behind at the starting line, or at best glimpsed through busy parents (who themselves were never educated in these areas) or from the TV.

Let's do some specifics.

Kids not having long enough to be kids. Its got very slightly better in 'pre school' here, but even then its stupid how tightly controlled kids are.
Targets are pushed at the expense of adaptive and experiential learning. Exams, meaning one day out several thousand you were in education decides the value of those thousands of days, are utterly archaic. 
Minds are entrenched in a flawed system of thinking, then punished when they try to improve this system. Kicked off when they draw too much attention to it.
Individuals are not nurtured toward their actual potential and instead have to spend years on subjects they will never need or use.
Discipline isn't taught in a disciplined manner. So nobody learns it. People use emotion to teach what needs to be controlled. This is a problem in almost all cases where discipline is being taught, even to a pet. If you are shouting at something you are not teaching a person, an animal, or child discipline. You are teaching them emotion, anxiety, anger etc.

I've been out of education for a long long while, maybe some of this has improved. From my understanding kids are still compressed into flawed collective thinking only with less of an authoritarian lean. If it was an environmentally conscious, and socially and/or emotionally intelligent collective that would be great. It isn't.

*Oh and how to be successful in life, should be a course in every curriculum. 
**I keep wanting to add to this. Kids should be able to try all subjects easily, then based on performance over a year and their interest, pick a handful (or more) to specialise in. They should be able to swap between these until they find their way. Rather than wait till they are 18 to try 500 jobs, and maybe if they are lucky come across the one career that is right for them.

   I 100% agree, this ideal approach towards education, and letting students explore other domains of mastery early, holistically exploring early what they could be good at, and letting them specialize over time is crucial. Even though there could be hurdles in providing 500 plus classes and curriculums that allow for this type of learning, and maybe quite expensive, it not only produces geniuses but alsk saves so much time and energy for society as a whole.

[charlie cho]

@BlueOak Emotional intelligence and social intelligence, I agree they are important. But I don't know how they can really be taught? Social intelligence is basically about studying relationships. My God, if anyone in this world has solved this problem of "relationships" then he would get the Nobel prize. Seems like no one ever avoids conflicts with their wives, friends, husbands, and families. And anyone who claims to teach us about "relationships" don't do well themselves usually. "How to win friends and Influence people" is a form of teaching for business and personal relationships, but it hardly amounts to true friendship with authentic interaction. Emotional intelligence is basically being aware of the heart and utilizing the heart or (emotions) to its utmost potential. And anybody claiming to solve that problem are usually called cults, heretics, and spiritual scammers. Isn't religion basically about that? If you understand me. I understand why school systems avoid teaching social intelligence and emotional intelligence. 

However, even in the sciences, linguistics, and history I don't see the education system teaching these subjects in the right way either.... emotional intelligence is out of question, social intelligence, and now, simply the intellectual things too. What is it good at anyway? 

[BlueOak]

@charlie cho

Aside from career pursuits, or how to react in a crisis for example, it is not so much about teaching them authenticity or how to be social, its about getting them to think on it and gain their own awareness of society and themselves. This brings authenticity naturally. That sums everything below, as I went far into possible methods.

Firstly when I read your words, its evident that we are almost starting from ground zero. We are so far behind other forms of education we are needing to discuss how they can be taught at all in the modern setting.

Social intelligence,

Two things I can think of that are taught are how to work in a team and how to communicate in a group. I would extend this to how to work on a class project. Once in every class, I would assign roles as if it were a business, or a council, a TV studio, a charity, a sporting event etc. I would go through every major group or setting I could think, of and make sure at least one example was given to the child of how to operate within it.

I would then focus on communication. How to effectively communicate with your boss, and your coworkers. In the curriculum I would have mock interviews, and how to handle them face to face. I would put students through having to write 50 job applications to get one interview, and have them work on their CV. I would teach them persistence to get a goal and how to handle disappointment or rejection. I would go to great pains to show them how to handle failure and rejection, to the point it became as natural as breathing. 

In a wider context of current events. I would show how to relate to friends and family through difficult social issues that are arising at the time. How to process the problems we as a family, friend or society face, to have them think on and develop their own answers or methods of processing these issues. Covering things like personal loss, distance from friends/family, how to deal with changing circumstances, how to meet new people and form connections with them.

I would try to explain group dynamics and extend this beyond the individual. I would try to explain the dynamics of all systems we have in society. The nature of society's interactions with police, politics, different cultures, the environment, industries, events, and protests. I would try to keep this at a group level, and give them a group awareness not just considering the individual. It's important to link to the individual as we live in individualist societies in the west, but having that group awareness means the collective can be related to as a group, rather than just individual members within it. In some lessons, I would especially try to foster a sense of class community, rather than them just being individuals they would be a class watching each other's back. 

That's me with a basic understanding of social intelligence, I am sure if there was a socially intelligent genius present designing the curriculum they would better define this, especially the last part.

Emotional intelligence.
Even more so it's about having them develop their own awareness, not telling them how to feel. There are books and books on this to offer insight but nothing beats self-awareness.

I would demonstrate each emotion and some examples of it. I would do so in image, color, music, language and location for the younger kids. What people experience when going through it. To show them its perfectly natural and they are not odd or alone for feeling a certain way. I would show cues for reading body language, tones or obvious signs in others. Examples in film, or literature to relate to others going through a certain emotion or event like loss, bullying, breakup, or parents divorce, on the extreme end when to call for help if someone is suicidal or being abused. I would introduce them to a wide variety of places and locations they were unfamiliar with and get them used to uncertainty for example. I would have them watch sad films, happy films, films that covered each emotion well, which schools do, I would try and get them to feel comfortable in different emotional states so they could move them through them more easily.

I would have them identify whether they were feeling happy or joy doing something or just distracting themselves. This will save them decades later and a small fortune in bills. I would get them to develop their own emotional guidance system.

I would discuss topics that bring about emotional states, and offer support and guidance how to look internally. I would prepare them for the triggered emotions we all experience in life. There are a million different models for emotional awareness to pick to discuss to better relate this. I'd have them write out their own emotional states, what they are feeling right now, to experience it and realise it. I would stop them often and have them assess what they are feeling right now to develop nuance in their emotional range. Especially when an argument broke out, i'd encourage them to become aware of why it happened, and what they are feeling.

I would model the different human needs and the different emotions we go through in trying to find them. I would describe emotional spirals, why they happen, and how to act/react to them. For older kids I would talk frankly about addictions and how they fill emotional voids. I would speak about abuse, the trauma inflicted, and how we shape our behaviors around it. 

I would have people do what we did in smaller doses, in gaining our own self-awareness. Self-reflect on our own behaviors, but not as a punishment as a regular event. Why we are triggered to react a certain way, I would deeply encourage self-awareness and understanding of why we are who we are. Why others act as they do and how to not only predict reactions but understand the meaning behind them, and why we can cause them ourselves with our behaviors. Why sometimes we are our own worst enemy, in creating that which we least want.

Virtues. I wouldn't just punish a kid for being dishonest, or disrespectful for example, I would go into great detail about two lives led, one that was dishonest and one that was honest for example. Pictures, a lifepath diagram with choices made, the results, the emotions that came about, why they informed the choices, and what resulted. Preferably with real-life examples.

Both of these things we are talking about are touched on to a lesser degree, and sometimes the kids will pick up on them, but the fact they are not emphasized to be as important as the grades in other subjects, is why we are failing.

Edited May 26, 2022 by BlueOak

[8Ball]

Regurgitating information isn't the best way to go about it. And that's how it looks for the most part. Only a very small percentage of people in academia truly leaves a legacy. The rest are the ones who end up with standard high-paying jobs without actually doing any good.

[Oeaohoo]

Most of the modern approach to education comes from the Industrial Revolution. Most modern schools and universities were created during the Industrial period. Children were being thrown into factories, so it became necessary to create institutions to keep children and young adults out of them until they were older. This was motivated partly by a feeling that it was immoral to force children to work in factories, but also just because they could work for very cheap and so undercut adult labour. These institutions were called schools and universities. Their real purpose is not education but to delay the child in growing up. They are literally just the application of industrial principles - raw material in, product out - to human education. This is how it "turned out to be quite dehumanizing and how education made children into cogs in machines."

Of course, exciting notions of an "education for everybody" and the utilitarian notion of the "greatest good for the greatest number" came into play here too. If you are going to educate everybody indiscriminately, the whole process will inevitably have to be reduced to the lowest common denominator in which the individual student is no longer important. In the past, education was more finely tuned to the needs and talents of the student. Most people just learnt trades, because that was all they needed for a fulfilling and happy life.

[Razard86]

On 5/26/2022 at 6:33 AM, charlie cho said:

I was just having a dialogue with a historian in South Korea (specializes in Nations/Late medieval Korean dynasty, researches in depth about war and national security because of his specialty) and I saw in his speech in a dialogue between me and him how bitter he was about the academic system. He's famous in this country, possibly the most famous as a "celebrity"? historian, and I was surprised how a person who got a doctorate degree in the top 3 best universities here, was a university professor in history would say such a thing about where he essentially came from, academia. 

Yes, I always knew the education system was corrupt, but hearing this from a person from the inside, coming from the best schools, coming from a highly respected professor, hearing him on first-hand truly angry about the whole thing really imprinted in me how mushed up must the education system be for him to complain like this? 

Is there a history book, an in depth research paper about how the current education system came about? I want to see how it turned out to be quite dehumanizing and how education made children into cogs in machines. 

What is your opinion about the education system? Why is it good? And why is it so ugly? 

Maybe, I've only experienced bad ones, 

Its easy....it is human nature to corrupt everything. Everything is corrupt....so of course the education system is corrupt. Here is a short list of all the corruptions.

1. Education 2. Healthcare 3. Food Industry 4. Religion 5. Clothing Industry 6. Manufacturing 7. Government 8. Media 9. Corporations.

So yeah corruption is normal. If you want to understand how the Education system got so corrupt...study the nature of corruption in general. Corruption is normal, a lack of corruption is ABNORMAL. Corruption happens because of ego, a desire to control. Once the desire of control comes into place....corruption enters in. 

[BadHippie]

Ivan Illich wrote a good book about the problems with the education system - Deschooling Society. 

He basically argues that obligatory school in itself divides people and society. The book is already like 50 years old though, but remains relevant as it seems that school and universities only got worse.