Hip Hop and censorship?

[Danioover9000]

   Basically, what are your thoughts about the current censorships and cancellations in mainstream and the internet onto some artists from the hip hop industry and rap?

   Should we ban, prohibit or isolate certain raps, and other music because of the message/value the song is about, or on the grounds of demonic, vulgar and spiteful use of language used to deliver that message/value?

   Should we prohibit or regulate based on morality and ethical views?

   One example, to make the topic more concrete, would be Eminem. Should we prohibit, cencor, cancel or regulate slim shady types of music? Yes I'm biased towards Eminem as I've grown up listening to some of his songs, and turned alright, but another person might not have turned out alright. A hypothetical here to better understand this situation, would be that a musuc is language such that it incites violence against some idea, or a person, and someone who's stage, cognitive and moral development, personality, ego development, state of consciousness and life experiences might make this individual literally believe and think that he/she should kick, punch, stomp and ambush Everlast because Eminem's diss track clearly said so, that if you're a fan of M, and you see everlast, you treat him like that. I can clearly see, despite being a fan of Eminem, metaphorically interpret, that it's a diss track and doesn't literally mean that I go out of my way to kick Everlast because I'm in it for the flow, beats and lyrical genius that stimulates my ears. However, a person of lower psychological development and cognitive development that interprets reality literally, would fail to see that it is metaphorically and not a direct command to do harm.

    

   

Edited May 25, 2022 by Danioover9000

[Danioover9000]

   Are you guys not concerned with censorship and cancel culture? 

[Danioover9000]

   Here's one example of this:

https://youtu.be/Z0bM8Qinvak

[Rokazulu]

"Should" is conditional. It exists as fear.

I can only suggest highlighting the source of our fear, instead of bypassing it by censoring.



 

[Danioover9000]

@Rokazulu

13 hours ago, Rokazulu said:

"Should" is conditional. It exists as fear.

I can only suggest highlighting the source of our fear, instead of bypassing it by censoring.



 

   I understand that. In the flip side, from a person whose stage green/orange, whose cognitive and moral development allows him to emphasize and be compassionate to others, psyche and ego development is higher, states of consciousness more holistic and emotional, and wjose life experiences are diverse, would justify censorship and cancellation of a rapper on the grounds that such a rapper, whose stage blue/red values, lower cognitive and moral development, abnormal psychological development, denser states of consciousness and lesser or more limited life experiences, as being in tbe streets as a gangster for example is harmful psychological to younger more impressionable minds inchildren and teens. He may argue subliminally that the rap music is perpetuating gang violence.

   However, not all rap music is centrally about the thug lifestyle, or the gang bangers, the sex, money, fame, assaults. So, how does society sort out the wheats from the chaffs?

   In my opinion, maybe Eminem is biased towards censorship and cancel culture because, well, he's slim shady. Also earning millions from his album sales as well.

   What do you guys think? Is rap music just entertainment or is more than that?

 

[Preety_India]

Not only that they promote gang culture, sexism, misogyny and drugs. 

 

 

[Danioover9000]

   Another example which happened, is Eminem's view of Donald Trump, which is negative, and expressed implicitly in a song where he suggested that he would be bombed in a car. Of course he took this serious and sent FBI to investigate this, but the charges shortly dropped. So,the point of this example I'm making, which is a bit different from censorship and cancellation, is that is this legal grounds to take and sue an artist for inciting violence at a person or place?

   

   

[Danioover9000]

@Preety_India

25 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Not only that they promote gang culture, sexism, misogyny and drugs. 

 

 

   I 100% agree, especially the rap music 20 + years ago, and still to this day. I grew up listening to Eminem and luckily for me, because I received enough love from my family and some friends, the experiences I had travelling to different places, and that I was a bit different psychological to my peers then, I grew up fine. If I'm being honest, I'm in it for the music beats and lyrical sounds and the relationship between tbe music and vocals, despite some of them, if interpreted literally, can be downright sexist, misogynistic, inciting violence, rapey, domineering, demonising ect. Back then I mostly listened to his songs, but over time I didn't.

   Nowadays I listen to other musics with the occasional rap, and mostly freestyle rap about flowers and gardens.?

[Rokazulu]

Will we be able to protect anyone from their own culture, for very long? These themes are rampant everywhere.

If we valued a more harmonious culture, we would start creating, promoting, and becoming interested in art of that kind.
Educating people on a variety of perspectives, and allowing them to make their own choice of what they desire to listen to, with full clarity of what they are getting into.

For example, I wouldn't ban Call of Duty because it has violent themes, but I would make anyone aware, that by playing this game, you are psychologically involving yourself with a type of military propaganda against an enemy, where the only solution is kill or be killed. Not to mention the competitive, hierarchical and divisive aspects cloaked in a very limited scope of camaraderie.

Censorship remains a lazy shortcut, that perhaps temporarily slaps a band-aid on the situation, but fundamentally solves very little. Often it creates the opposite of the desired effect. Energy doesn't need to be focused on a fruitless game of whack-a-mole. People will continue to be influenced by behavior that mimics control if we continue to control in the same manner (e.g. rebellion against culture), which continues the programming that they believe works. Good vs Evil. Victory vs Defeat.
 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Rokazulu

[Danioover9000]

@Rokazulu

3 hours ago, Rokazulu said:

Will we be able to protect anyone from their own culture, for very long? These themes are rampant everywhere.

If we valued a more harmonious culture, we would start creating, promoting, and becoming interested in art of that kind.
Educating people on a variety of perspectives, and allowing them to make their own choice of what they desire to listen to, with full clarity of what they are getting into.

For example, I wouldn't ban Call of Duty because it has violent themes, but I would make anyone aware, that by playing this game, you are psychologically involving yourself with a type of military propaganda against an enemy, where the only solution is kill or be killed. Not to mention the competitive, hierarchical and divisive aspects cloaked in a very limited scope of camaraderie.

Censorship remains a lazy shortcut, that perhaps temporarily slaps a band-aid on the situation, but fundamentally solves very little. Often it creates the opposite of the desired effect. Energy doesn't need to be focused on a fruitless game of whack-a-mole. People will continue to be influenced by behavior that mimics control if we continue to control in the same manner (e.g. rebellion against culture), which continues the programming that they believe works. Good vs Evil. Victory vs Defeat.
 

   Of course, but I think it's worth a try, maybe not only with censorship or cancelation, which I'd leave as kind of a last resort for people deserving of cancelation. Have a listen to Eminem's slim shady mode, during the Everlast drama, listen to that last diss track from Eminem. Is that not justification enough for a state to step in and either censor, cancel, or whatever. Ridiculous it all started due to either Eminem or Everlast passing by the other, not saying hi or acknowledging the other. Tragic, but on the other hand we get to experience high level disses from Emcees. A question remains though: If part of those threats actualized though, would that justify censorship and cancelation?

   I assume your are more against censorship?

   I'm all for harmonious culture and holistic learning of other perspectives. I'm just of an age where I'm picky with my information intake even in leisure and entertainment mode, maybe I'm in the greens mode

   In your hypothetical of Call of Duty, I agree that there should be fair warnings and disclaimers to the content. I think the music industry does have that when they where broadcasting rap music, like there's more mainstream rap, but at midnight there's adult sex crazy rap or whatever.  I do think that the state and the industry should probably introduce more regulation cuz some music even in mainstream are sexual and violent. While I do agree with your hypothetical, what about the cases where listening to sexual and violent rap music had a strong correlation to increases in gun crime and sexual assaults? Not even a hypothetical, I can list you hundreds of cases where a person or a group committed crimes that are related to what they listen to. A real life example, not of rap, but it involved John Lennon, whose music was misinterpreted by a person, that incited some kind of violence in him that it motivated him enough to shoot him. In such cases, does this justify censorship and cancelation? If not that, an investigation? 

   

[Danioover9000]

@Rokazulu

19 hours ago, Rokazulu said:

"Should" is conditional. It exists as fear.

I can only suggest highlighting the source of our fear, instead of bypassing it by censoring.



 

   I also agree with these, to be aware of what our fear response is, before censoring it. I don't like seeing extremely graphic imagery or sounds, so some cases seems like censorship could be justified?

[Danioover9000]

   This is a good video on rap:

   However, it misses the meta point here. I can give the counter argument, based on Spiral Dynamics and integral theory. Here's the hypothetical: Imagine having slightly different values, cognition, morality, personality, states and life experiences. Now imagine that you have different  cognitive development, which is more autistic and mild schizophrenic, that you mostly interpret what's around you more binarily and literally than metaphorically and abstractly, and you listen to your favourite rapper, in a diss track. Imagine you actually believe every word that is said in that track, and you end up attacking the targeted person in that diss. Are you telling me that it's ok to let these words incite violence, with little legal ramifications to the author?

[Danioover9000]

   This a good rap music to me:

   It's these types of rap music I'd like to hear, that cover some topics like the ego and spirituality, and darkness. Yes, there's some language in there that still echoes back and has roots in gang and rap culture, but it's these types of music that's nice to listen too. Nice beats and instrumentals as well, kind of gave me a rock rap vibes with it.

   Hopefully rap music evolves away from stage red towards stage blue/orange/green type of music, it's getting redundant when rap's all about the streets or gangs or whatever. 

[Danioover9000]

https://youtu.be/QPRmFJ_U8Ug

 

[Danioover9000]

   Is there any substantial arguments against rap music? Maybe one argument for regulation or censorship of rap music is assuming that music is very similar to subliminal messages, that the language used can slip into your subconscious mind and influence how you feel and think, and even increase the likelihood of violent behaviors. 

[Danioover9000]

   Probably if you ask me, rap practiced in private as a therapeutic session, for channeling your hidden stage red shadows is also a good form of practice.

 

[Danioover9000]

   Joe's momentary take on Eminem's diss on Trump:

https://youtu.be/IlXTyyFtiLc

Do you think Trump could technically take Eminem to court over defamation and incitement of violence?

If Trump is too triggering, replace that with you or somebody you know and like, and Eminem dissing about that person.

[Danioover9000]

   Good video:

https://youtu.be/cwy9YUQ1Z_8

   I may be a soft rapper, but I'm gonna be using freestyle rap as self therapy for me.

[Thurlian]

I love Hip-Hop.

 

There shouldn't be censorship. There needs to be freedom of expression. Just like America gives hate groups or religious groups the freedom to say what they what to their congregations, same thing should apply to Hip-Hop. I love the craft and art and imo, the craft has been corrupted over the years.

 

I agree with you that depending on the listener, they will interrupt the music different. It's all perspective.

 

That is why i love this last Kendrick Lamar Album so much. I think it might be one of the best of all time. Mr Moral and the Big Steppers is so honest. Fuck Cancel culture like Kendrick says. i am tired of people being politically correct instead of being authentic. 

 

Rap is also story telling so people shouldn't take everything rappers say so literal. 

Film makers can make gruesome scenes in their movie that can make you question their minds but when a rapper is telling a vulgar story through words that is more offensive? I am tired of how overly sensitive society is. 

 

Words are energy and hold weight but paradoxically words only have as much weight as we give them as well since language is a human construct--we can change the meanings of words at will since it is a game.

[Gidiot]

Why shouldn’t we censor all music or art? Why start with music? Like it was said, call of duty has done more damage to the developing minds of kids then any rap could do, even though I would agree I wouldn’t want my kid listening to that if there is just no deep message, but really also who am I to judge, of course there needs to be standards but is not an explicit warning enough? I mean cigarettes got them, violent video games should have them too. Just let people know what they are getting into but give them the autonomy to make their own choices (and if people making their own choices becomes problematic and destructive like it is becoming with guns, then you can talk about laws and regulations/restrictions), and live with the consequences. Just my two cents

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by Gidiot