21 dead in an elementry school shooting

[puporing]

7 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

Sadly, I think that many conservatives are going to need to suffer from a profound level of gun violence themselves in order to genuinely accept the need for major gun reforms.

Many members of their families and many of their relatives, close friends, long-term partners, etc. would have to die from such an unfathomably nightmarish mass shooting that has never happened since the American Civil War, if not worst.

I really hope not, if people can awaken to it before more tragedies go on. The sufferring is already happening.. 

[Gidiot]

Well I did like the Biden speech, I hope he has the backbone to DEMAND it, you gotta bully these people on this issue, it's not going to come from bipartisanship.

[Hardkill]

1 hour ago, puporing said:

I really hope not, if people can awaken to it before more tragedies go on. The sufferring is already happening.. 

I really hope not, but it may have to come to that. 

It’s like how Leo talked about the idea when some idea or method that works in the short-term turns out to be so ugly or so horrific that enough people will finally realize that it needs to change. 

1 hour ago, Gidiot said:

Well I did like the Biden speech, I hope he has the backbone to DEMAND it, you gotta bully these people on this issue, it's not going to come from bipartisanship.

You know, I actually don’t think that will work. After 1937, when the conservative coalition ended up dominating congress, FDR tried as hard as he could to bully as many conservative Democrats and conservative Republicans in Congress to vote for many of the pieces legislation that they were opposed to. But it didn’t work. He even tried to purge the conservative Democrats by campaigning against them like hell and have the primaried as much as possible. But that didn’t work at all either. He was only able to get one conservative Democrat primaried by another more liberal Democrat. In fact, the whole conservative coalition in Congress hardened their stance against FDR’s New Deal policies. They only allowed him to pass just one more New Deal legislation in 1938. After that, only regular legislation would get passed for the rest of his presidency. 

same with JFK and LBJ. Despite the massive democratic majorities they each had in both chambers of Congress, neither one of get any major policy changing legislation pass until the end of 1963. That was the time when JFK was assassinated, the conservative coalition finally lost their dominance in Congress, and the civil rights movement finally got through to both the public and the elite. That’s when LBJ was finally able to effectively use both his extensive experience and skill as a legislator and hardball tactics to get the supermajority of Congress from both sides of the aisle to pass the 1964 Civil rights bill. I believe that all of those events led to such a massive electoral victory for the Democrats in 1964 that not only did LBJ win by a landslide, but also more liberals got elected into both the House and the Senate. Ultimately, LBJ and the liberal Democrats gained enough seats in Congress to finally pass the 1965 voting rights bill, along with a flood of other historic Great Society bills.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Hardkill

[something_else]

Honestly the US is probably too far gone

The reason gun control works in other countries is because they don’t have that many guns in the first place

The US has so many guns that you can’t ever hope to control and regulate them

On top of that, there are countries like Switzerland that have tons of guns too, but still have way way fewer deaths and mass shootings

That implies that there’s something categorically fucked about the mental state of a lot of American culture as well that is going to take a lot of work to fix

Hell, I’d say it’s nearly impossible

If a dude turning a Vegas hotel room into a military grade armoury and opening fire on a concert killing 60 people, and school shootings with death tolls upwards of 20, don’t make people want to change then nothing will

[ArcticGong]

Being a student seems to be dangerous in America.

[_Archangel_]

The idiocy of allowing civilians to own automatic riffles....

[Chives99]

Mass media has popularised shootings amongst people who share the same grievances, thats why they have to write a manifesto or upload a youtube video or write a blog post ranting about their ideology, it spreads their message to other people. Guns are also deeply ingrained in US culture leading people to think to pick up a gun. I also think the US doesn't really look after people especially marginalised people. The police are militant and brutal because everyone carries guns, lack of affordable healthcare, expensive education, lack of workers rights, lack of access to mental health support, homelessness rampant in all cities. Leos previous video mentioned the monkey experiment where baby monkeys that were taken away from their mothers were fucked up and couldnt function. Lack of love is a serious issue.

[nightrider1435]

3 hours ago, something_else said:

Honestly the US is probably too far gone

The reason gun control works in other countries is because they don’t have that many guns in the first place

The US has so many guns that you can’t ever hope to control and regulate them

On top of that, there are countries like Switzerland that have tons of guns too, but still have way way fewer deaths and mass shootings

That implies that there’s something categorically fucked about the mental state of a lot of American culture as well that is going to take a lot of work to fix

Hell, I’d say it’s nearly impossible

If a dude turning a Vegas hotel room into a military grade armoury and opening fire on a concert killing 60 people, and school shootings with death tolls upwards of 20, don’t make people want to change then nothing will

@something_else Agree with this unfortunately. People preach gun control and we are beyond that... it won't be enough. Guns would have to dissappear overnight for this to stop. 

 

[DocWatts]

What people from other parts of the world maybe don't realize is that there are more guns than people in America, so even if there was political will for an Australian or British solution it would prove to be logistically impossible.

That's not to give any sympathy whatsoever to Republicans, the NRA, or the far Right who are the most selfish people on the planet and could give a shit less about children being gunned down in schools.

That said, one aspect of the issue that's not given nearly enough attention is the toxicity of gun culture within a larger trend of a disintegrating and atomized culture where deaths of despair are becoming increasingly common among men.

Then add to this a gun culture in the US that's a wasteland of toxic masculinity that preys upon fear, suspicion, and inadequacy. 

Is it any wonder that in a culture where lots of men (and it's always men who are doing these mass shootings) aren't socialized in healthy ways and end up feeling hopeless and alienated from society, that some of them will decide to find one of the easy accessible guns in the US and make a mark by going out in a blaze of glory?

Gun control may be able to stop some of this, but helping men to live fulfilling and meaningful lives as well as countering the atomization of society from Late Stage Capitalism and Right Wing ideologues will also be necessary.

Edited May 25, 2022 by DocWatts

[MarkKol]

Its quite clear that guns shouldn't be sold at all. nobody besides the military & the police should be allowed to possess guns, no gun permits and no self defense bullshit

[Husseinisdoingfine]

42 minutes ago, MarkKol said:

Its quite clear that guns shouldn't be sold at all. nobody besides the military & the police should be allowed to possess guns, no gun permits and no self defense bullshit

That type of thinking is not going to fly in the United States.

[Rokazulu]

10 minutes ago, MarkKol said:

nobody besides the military & the police should be allowed to possess guns

They don't seem to have a better track record, in that regard.

Laws are cheap filters for blood.
A fellow human, feeling so powerless as to create violence in some way, is the necessity to self-actualize— to find compassion for all.



 

[DocWatts]

1 hour ago, MarkKol said:

Its quite clear that guns shouldn't be sold at all. nobody besides the military & the police should be allowed to possess guns, no gun permits and no self defense bullshit

Even if you're right, what's a realistic plan for getting rid of the 400 million guns that exist in the United States?

[Blackhawk]

21 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

Even if you're right, what's a realistic plan for getting rid of the 400 million guns that exist in the United States?

Both this shooter and the Buffalo shooter had just bought the guns legally.

Would they have bought guns in some other way anyway? Maybe, maybe not. But why make it super easy for them..

[DocWatts]

34 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

Both this shooter and the Buffalo shooter had just bought the guns legally.

Would they have bought guns in some other way anyway? Maybe, maybe not. But why make it super easy for them..

I'm in favor of much stronger gun control laws, but let's not delude ourselves in to thinking that sensible gun control laws is anything more than a (necessary) band-aid on top of a toxic form of gun culture that's coupled to a pathological form of individualism in the US.

As long as a large plurality of Americans continue to be unconcerned about the well being of other people outside of their immediate social circle, and until far more people here are willing to take responsibility for social problems, we can expect these problems to continue.

Edited May 25, 2022 by DocWatts

[abundance]

Until Democrats have a high enough majority in the House and Senate literally nothing will get done. Republicans refuse to budge because they're taking bribes from the gun industry. This is the country we live in and its pretty bleak and grim. 

[Bobby_2021]

Just make guns illegal, and allow some time for return of the guns. (2 years or so).

 

?

[Blackhawk]

23 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

I'm in favor of much stronger gun control laws, but let's not delude ourselves in to thinking that sensible gun control laws is anything more than a (necessary) band-aid on top of a toxic form of gun culture that's coupled to a pathological form of individualism in the US.

As long as a large plurality of Americans continue to be unconcerned about the well being of other people outside of their immediate social circle, and until far more people here are willing to take responsibility for social problems, we can expect these problems to continue.

So in that case there's no hope.

[Danioover9000]

@DocWatts

14 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

I'm in favor of much stronger gun control laws, but let's not delude ourselves in to thinking that sensible gun control laws is anything more than a (necessary) band-aid on top of a toxic form of gun culture that's coupled to a pathological form of individualism in the US.

As long as a large plurality of Americans continue to be unconcerned about the well being of other people outside of their immediate social circle, and until far more people here are willing to take responsibility for social problems, we can expect these problems to continue.

   I have a feeling this problem will persist past our lifetime, heck maybe 4 generations go by and still gun control problems. At this point, if no democratic and political solution works to control and regulate gun supply and ownership, then we have to consider martial law, if mass shootings and gun terrorism stilll keep happening and is slowly on the rise. Of course, if the government implemented martial law, the public is gonna cry out state control or facism or the next civil war, but what other way is there? Soft forms of programming like ads showcasing the harm of guns in public? A what if your child plays a gun thinking it's a toy? Economic sanctions on gun businesses? Double down on ideological and political narrative warfare? Teach gun control in the education system?

   It's a deep, tricky issue with no clear scope and risk free solutions.

   

[MarkKol]

2 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

That type of thinking is not going to fly in the United States.

then bullets shall fly instead, kill each other as much as you want 

1 hour ago, DocWatts said:

Even if you're right, what's a realistic plan for getting rid of the 400 million guns that exist in the United States?

while removing the current guns would help immensely, stopping the production and spread of them is so much easier to do. I didn't say anything about removing 400 million guns? although eventually those guns would need to be removed as well. we flew to the fucking moon man, its possible.

Look at how the government (plans) to get rid of gas cars, nobody is going to take your car once they're banned... only production will stop.

I forgot to mention ammunition, stop producing ammunition along with the guns and the shootings will decrease

Edited May 25, 2022 by MarkKol