What is a belief?

[Gianna]

I’ve been contemplating this today and have contemplated it in the past. I’ve come to several existential conclusions/explanations/definitions of this word/concept, ‘belief’. And basically, I’ve landed on the idea that a belief is something you identify with. Which sounds simple but only came as a result of very complicated deep thinking/analysis. In the past I’ve defined it as, 

- A repeated thought. 
- A thought that you believe in (but that uses the word in question in the definition which I hate.) 
- A thought that gives a feeling. Why? Because you believe it which also uses the term in the definition. And lastly, 
- A premise or conclusion not coming from your Self, but from “Other” that you accept and unite with— and thus identify with. 
 

I forgot the others. They included dualities such as ‘self’ and ‘other’ and ‘inside’ and ‘outside’. But since all of these dualities eventually collapse, I decided to land on, again, the simple explanation of, “a belief is something/anything you identify with.” 
 

Which is also to say, then, that identification is a belief. Which also appears to be so. What are your guys’ contemplations of this? 

[Leo Gura]

It's not so complicated. A belief is something you hold as true of reality which isn't strictly part of your direct experience.

For example, you believe the Earth is round. We can test that you believe this because if I started saying the Earth is flat, you would disagree and start to argue on the grounds that that is false.

So a belief is a sort of truth claim about something which isn't part of your direct experience.

Beliefs don't have to come from other, they can come from yourself. You generate many beliefs on your own based on assumptions, speculation, guess-work, and sense-making.

[Gianna]

@Leo Gura Wow, lovely. Thank u! 

[Eph75]

@Gianna

Stretch that to include also direct experience, as direct experience is an interpretation happening based on current values and beliefs, and is limited by your current cognitive level of complexity, attaching meaning to what you experience. 

Also that will at some point be proven to be incomplete, incorrect or down-right wrong.

Just look at your past, everything you thought you knew, say far into your past, is known to not be absolutely so. 

Awakening is a good example, turning everything you thought you knew on its head, beginning to operate from some other paradigm or point of reference. 

Unknowing is the understanding that there is naught but beliefs, other than the experience of experiencing, "I amness". 

Even conceptualizing what that is, is just that, conceptualization and belief. 

Unknowing greatly accelerates our development as it makes us recognize that belief is just a vantage point that "is not us", and more easily allows us to let go of that which  we hold on to that is anchoring, and holding us back.

Even without going to extremes, this is extremely valuable as it brings openness and curiosity, with healthy sceptisism that is "less" biased/ideological. 

Perspectives (products of beliefs) are no longer ours to hold on to but means to some desired outcome and can be replaced as soon as we allow ourselves to find beliefs that better serve those outcomes.

In that sense beliefs are tools, and should be used as only that, tools. 

Edited May 21, 2022 by Eph75

[UnbornTao]

A thought about what you hold to be true.

Edited May 22, 2022 by UnbornTao

[RendHeaven]

Any closedness of expression can be associated with belief 

[RMQualtrough]

Funny enough, literally everything but right now. Now. Now...... Now...... Now......

 

Every time you even read now, the idea you read the prior one was a belief. Could be a false memory right? So really almost everything is at least in part a belief... Not that it means all are invalid, but beliefs they are.

[Gesundheit2]

 

[gettoefl]

path for me is belief to knowledge to experience to existence(god)

[Gianna]

22 hours ago, Eph75 said:

Stretch that to include also direct experience, as direct experience is an interpretation happening based on current values and beliefs, and is limited by your current cognitive level of complexity, attaching meaning to what you experience. 

Hmm, this is very profound. So, could you say then that a belief is an interpretation of direct experience? But could never be the case/True because an interpretation is never actually the unspoken thing happening in direct experience but a symbolic representation of it? Lol! I realize I’m over-complicating but I feel that’s how to make sense of what’s actually happening with 'belief'. 

22 hours ago, Eph75 said:

Unknowing is the understanding that there is naught but beliefs, other than the experience of experiencing, "I amness". 

 

Okay, yes. So that speaks to the inevitable falsity of any belief. Because nature is unknown, if you think you know something, you're automatically distancing yourself from Truth. 

22 hours ago, Eph75 said:

Even conceptualizing what that is, is just that, conceptualization and belief. 

 

Hm... everything is itself. hehehe. 

22 hours ago, Eph75 said:

Unknowing greatly accelerates our development as it makes us recognize that belief is just a vantage point that "is not us", and more easily allows us to let go of that which  we hold on to that is anchoring, and holding us back.

Even without going to extremes, this is extremely valuable as it brings openness and curiosity, with healthy sceptisism that is "less" biased/ideological. 

The ego has suchhhhh a hard time with this– at least mine does. It's almost painful. How can we help the mind cope with this? Is coping even the answer or just to allow the meaning-making to happen. My mind hurts so bad trying to know what cannot be known even though I know you can't know it. 

22 hours ago, Eph75 said:

Perspectives (products of beliefs) are no longer ours to hold on to but means to some desired outcome and can be replaced as soon as we allow ourselves to find beliefs that better serve those outcomes.

In that sense beliefs are tools, and should be used as only that, tools. 

I like this. Loving and guiding your tool instead of having the tool guide you. I feel like we fall into the trap of being guided by beliefs when we identify with them.

[Gianna]

@UnbornTao @RendHeaven @RMQualtrough @gettoefl I like these, thanks guys!  

 

@Gesundheit2 I'll check this out. Thank you! 

[Eph75]

1 hour ago, Gianna said:

The ego has suchhhhh a hard time with this– at least mine does. It's almost painful. How can we help the mind cope with this? Is coping even the answer or just to allow the meaning-making to happen. My mind hurts so bad trying to know what cannot be known even though I know you can't know it. 

Coping is definitely not the way, letting go is, eliminating the need to cope.

The concept is so simple, but it's not easy. Wouldn't the world be very different if it was?

It brings a deeply profound sense of freedom, when this happens.

Freedom from self. 

And yes, of course, your ego won't like it, as it means a ginormous chunk of itself gets discarded when that shift happens. 

Who are we when we understand that we don't really know anything?

We're less - which won't play nice with the ego - and infinitely more, at the same time.

Contradictory, paradoxical. 

1 hour ago, Gianna said:

I like this. Loving and guiding your tool instead of having the tool guide you. I feel like we fall into the trap of being guided by beliefs when we identify with them.

It makes it a lot easier to relate to, and helps us to create some easy to accept distance between us and our beliefs.

Without implying that we should replace our beliefs with someone else's, as they see it, better beliefs.

That would trigger the egos defences.

And, we all know intuitly that, it's true.

We've proven it to ourselves in the past. Many times. We've most likely just haven't been mindful of it happening.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Eph75

[Leo Gura]

Raw perception is of course interpreted and assembled into a kind of augemented reality by the ego mind. But it would be best to distinguish that from belief.

[Gesundheit2]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Raw perception is of course interpreted and assembled into a kind of augemented reality by the ego mind. But it would be best to distinguish that from belief.

Or maybe it would be best to integrate beliefs as something that can be used consciously and properly instead of mindlessly. And when necessary, they can be changed, no biggie.

[Eph75]

Perfectly combines;

@Leo Gura

Distributions are good, yes, distinguishing them allows for seeing the higher level of complexity that helps with the practical side of the equation...

@Gesundheit2

...Which help with moving us to the position where, they're "no biggie". 

[VeganAwake]

On 5/21/2022 at 4:33 PM, Gianna said:

Which is also to say, then, that identification is a belief. Which also appears to be so. What are your guys’ contemplations of this? 

It's more than just a belief though....it's an actual experience stemming from a physical/mental misunderstanding or assumption.

Jim Newman describes it as a psychosomatic misunderstanding.

❤ 

 

[Waken]

Abraham Hicks says a belief is a thought you keep thinking. I think that indeed might be more true than saying a belief is something you hold true.

[WelcometoReality]

On 2022-05-21 at 11:33 PM, Gianna said:

Which is also to say, then, that identification is a belief. Which also appears to be so. What are your guys’ contemplations of this? 

I would say that beliefs are identification to thought and feeling patterns. But identification goes much deeper than beliefs, it actually alters the way we see reality.

[Gianna]

5 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

It's more than just a belief though....it's an actual experience stemming from a physical/mental misunderstanding or assumption.

Jim Newman describes it as a psychosomatic misunderstanding.

❤ 

Oh of course! Identification is much more than a belief, although it might come from one. I like the description of psychosomatic misunderstanding. Which elicits, as you say, a whole actual experience. ?

[Gianna]

@WelcometoReality But doesn’t beliefs alter the way you see reality too? 

 

@Waken a thought you keep thinking, yes. But subconsciously too, which makes it so tricky to identify.