Absolutely damning front-page article about Pickup

[Striving for more]

6 hours ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

What most people consider to be a "normal, non-creepy way", is basically just social circle game. Basically chit-chatting within your social circle, expanding it, and eventually finding gf/bf throught that circle. So, that's still a pretty sleezy strategy, if you ask me. And it's not for everyone - not everyone can build and mantain a steady social circle, chit-chat about bullshit constantly, etc. So, the only option is the hard core option - daygame and nightgame

Pick up is ironically the most un creepy and honest thing you can do. 

Tinder is somehow more socially acceptable but tinder is way more creepy and risky, at least with pick up the girl can see first hand how you are as a person at least non verbally and intuitively before meeting up with you, even appearance wise as everyone catfishes the shit out of each other on tinder. 

Being direct and upfront and vulnerable is not creepy.

... Still going to delete these comments because I don't want more guys doing pickup. 

Please lets have as many unattractive men who don't approach as possible. 

Yh I have scarcity mindset problems, maybe I will change someday & I will calm down a bit. 

Edited May 23, 2022 by Striving for more

[Vrubel]

@Striving for more  Hey man, cool.

In what city do you day game?

[something_else]

@Striving for more I’m not saying no one should do daygame, it can work for some guys under some circumstances, clearly it does for you

I’m simply saying that it tends to be interpreted as very needy and creepy by wider society and with good reason

90%+ of the dudes who end up doing hardcore daygame just annoy or creep out a lot of girls

The fact that daygame is only viable when you get to a city with a population of 1 or 2mil or more is an indicator of the issue, it requires an absurd amount of anonymity to avoid getting into serious trouble or building up a bad reputation

There are already dudes in the 1mil pop city near me that have a poor reputation, or have gotten in legal trouble for doing hardcore daygame. Several news articles on them

Meanwhile I can do nightgame in my 100k town and have no issues at all. If I started doing hardcore daygame here I’d be in a news article (or all over social media) by the end of the week, even if I was good at it

To me there’s no reason to hardcore daygame when nightgame A) Is actually fun B) Is far less risky C) Has more girls concentrated in a small area D) Has way more receptive girls

Basically the only disadvantage is cost and sleep pattern but these are not huge factors if you’re careful

[Striving for more]

@something_else NG can be very fun but only IF all the right conditions, wingman and logistics are met. This is not always so easy to handle. 

For me DG is king. 

It's also easier to decipher a girls vibe & intelligence when talking to her in the day. 

Of course physical attraction mandatory but I do care about the vibe a lot. 

NG is really loud but it's defo a great tool to enhance physical escalation ability which I really lack. 

I tend to meet way more low quality women in NG, stupid judgemental bad energy uneducated, shallow & stuck up, just wants to fuck the DJ ect.. .  U got the obstacles of friend cockblock, banner blindness and competition is very high.

But ideal is to do both if you got the logistics and time for it. 

Edit : U Know what what the F*** Am I on about? 

The line between day & night game can be blurred anyway. You can have day bars and fesitvities. 

just do all of it, it's all good, but 1 maybe be better dependin gon where u live. 

 

Edited May 23, 2022 by Striving for more

[Vrubel]

9 hours ago, something_else said:

The fact that daygame is only viable when you get to a city with a population of 1 or 2mil or more is an indicator of the issue, it requires an absurd amount of anonymity to avoid getting into serious trouble or building up a bad reputation

There are already dudes in the 1mil pop city near me that have a poor reputation, or have gotten in legal trouble for doing hardcore daygame. Several news articles on them

This is paranoid as hell. As I said and described in a previous posting you must avoid clownish and cringy game methods. But there is nothing illegal about approaching and people don't give a shit about you and what you do. Yes, if you live in a small town, day game will be extremely hard. In that case you have to be even more discreet. my rule of thumb is to just walk around and don't stay in one place for too long and go home after 5-7 approaches. 

I Usually game in Amsterdam (1 mil people). But sometimes also go to a city with a pop of 300 000. This means I just walk around the area of the central station and adjacent shopping area.  After an hour or two and 5-7 approaches, I go home. In a sense, this is more Ideal than Amsterdam where more time and walking are required. 

My Dutch cites are not ideal for day game but still doable. If you live in a city like Paris or London you basically live in a day gamers paradise

Edited May 24, 2022 by Vrubel

[Leo Gura]

20 hours ago, Vrubel said:

Oke, I am not really deep into the community. Like I did a boot camp with PUAs, but day game alone and only very recently started going out with the "community members". Most are chill and open but at the end of the day, they're just young guys looking for sex and love. That's almost every man in the universe but they do it on a more systematic and consistent level so to speak. Likewise, every man can shit talk and act obnoxiously but this doesn't mean that they are abusive dicks.
I obviously cannot look into their personal lives and see how they treat women but to be honest they don't seem particularly dickish at least not more so than an average guy. Like, have you seen some of the non-PUA people that go out and how dickish and obnoxious they seem? And even for most PUAs getting laid is relatively scarce. When they land a girl it's a big deal for them.

Again, I am not talking about individual guys but the community and sub-culture. You need to distinguish those two.

[Karmadhi]

On 5/23/2022 at 11:51 PM, something_else said:

I’m not saying no one should do daygame, it can work for some guys under some circumstances, clearly it does for you

I’m simply saying that it tends to be interpreted as very needy and creepy by wider society and with good reason

90%+ of the dudes who end up doing hardcore daygame just annoy or creep out a lot of girls

The fact that daygame is only viable when you get to a city with a population of 1 or 2mil or more is an indicator of the issue, it requires an absurd amount of anonymity to avoid getting into serious trouble or building up a bad reputation

There are already dudes in the 1mil pop city near me that have a poor reputation, or have gotten in legal trouble for doing hardcore daygame. Several news articles on them

Meanwhile I can do nightgame in my 100k town and have no issues at all. If I started doing hardcore daygame here I’d be in a news article (or all over social media) by the end of the week, even if I was good at it

To me there’s no reason to hardcore daygame when nightgame A) Is actually fun B) Is far less risky C) Has more girls concentrated in a small area D) Has way more receptive girls

Basically the only disadvantage is cost and sleep pattern but these are not huge factors if you’re careful

You seem to project a lot regarding daygame. Daygame and nightgame both work and are legit depending on your personality and style.

Since you are talking about creepyness, yes it is true that it is easier to creep girls during daygame but does not mean you cannot talk to them. What matters is where YOU FEEL more comfortable. Personally i am 10x more likely to creep out a girl during nightgame than daygame simply because nightgame environements make me so uncomfortable that i will become creepy. No matter how much i expose myself to them, i always feel like i am a shadow socially of what i can be in other settings. So in MY case, daygame is a better option.

For you might be different, everyone is different. But saying this is creepy and this is not is a very simplyfied view on it.

Plenty of guys kill it with daygame,  i know some of them. Just like i know others that kill it with nightgame. What is the trend i have noticed? Everyone games in the environement they feel most natural and comfortable at.

AG Hayden and  Natural lifestyles are great daygame channels, John Anthony lifestyle and RSD are great nightgame channels. I do not see any of them being creepy .

Edited May 25, 2022 by Karmadhi

[something_else]

14 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

You seem to project a lot regarding daygame. Daygame and nightgame both work and are legit depending on your personality and style.

Since you are talking about creepyness, yes it is true that it is easier to creep girls during daygame but does not mean you cannot talk to them. What matters is where YOU FEEL more comfortable. Personally i am 10x more likely to creep out a girl during nightgame than daygame simply because nightgame environements make me so uncomfortable that i will become creepy. No matter how much i expose myself to them, i always feel like i am a shadow socially of what i can be in other settings. So in MY case, daygame is a better option.

For you might be different, everyone is different. But saying this is creepy and this is not is a very simplyfied view on it.

Plenty of guys kill it with daygame,  i know some of them. Just like i know others that kill it with nightgame. What is the trend i have noticed? Everyone games in the environement they feel most natural and comfortable at.

AG Hayden and  Natural lifestyles are great daygame channels, John Anthony lifestyle and RSD are great nightgame channels. I do not see any of them being creepy .

I am not against daygame per se, I would approach or talk to occasional girls I see that are attractive as I go about my day-to-day life, but I keep the hardcore 10-20 approaches in a short space of time to nightgame, I suppose that is just my preference and where I feel most comfortable

I've never left my house just to daygame. I think that's when it becomes creepy and needy. If you wanna build a life that a girl wants to be a part of, it's better to be a dude who knows how to party and have a good time than a dude who leaves his house at 11am on a Saturday to go looking for sex on the street

Again, I'm not saying it can't work. I know it can work. But it feels like it has a lot less integrity, and requires a lot more 'not giving a fuck.' And maybe that's a good thing. But you're pretty much always gonna need to lie heavily about why you're out if you go daygaming, compared to nightgame where you can just go out and party with girls and it all feels far more authentic, at least to me

 

[Vrubel]

21 minutes ago, something_else said:

I've never left my house just to daygame. I think that's when it becomes creepy and needy.

If you've never really done it how do you know this belief/assumption is true. 
 

24 minutes ago, something_else said:

Again, I'm not saying it can't work. I know it can work. But it feels like it has a lot less integrity, and requires a lot more 'not giving a fuck.' And maybe that's a good thing. But you're pretty much always gonna need to lie heavily about why you're out if you go daygaming, compared to nightgame where you can just go out and party with girls and it all feels far more authentic, at least to me

 

You don't have to lie. And don't act like night game is some pure and honest method of getting laid. 
 

27 minutes ago, something_else said:

it's better to be a dude who knows how to party and have a good time than a dude who leaves his house at 11am on a Saturday to go looking for sex on the street

 

I get it night game works best for you but this is pure projection. I can argue that meeting a girl on the street and dating is more wholesome and romantic than a club lay. 

[something_else]

33 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

If you've never really done it, how do you know this belief/assumption is true. 

I never said it was true, I said I think it's creepy which is just an opinion. Though probably one that I suspect many people would share

33 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

You don't have to lie. And don't act like night game is some pure and honest method of getting laid. 

I mean ya kinda do. If a girl asks what you're out doing and you say you're approaching girls on the street to get laid, it isn't gonna go down well

It's more honest than hardcore daygame. You could prob even get away with literally saying "I'm just out to get laid tonight" in nightgame if you said it with the right energy and owned it. But generally speaking I just say "I'm out partying" which is pretty much what I'm doing. My primary aim is to go out and enjoy myself, getting laid is just a bonus

To me that seems far more authentic

33 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

I get it night game works best for you but this is pure projection. I can argue that meeting a girl on the street and dating is more wholesome and romantic than a club lay. 

And I would agree with you. If you met the girl authentically while you were living your life. That's about as wholesome and romantic as it gets

The issue I take is purely with leaving your house during the day to go looking for sex, and then spam approaching girls on the street

Again, I'm not saying that these things should be illegal or that you shouldn't do them. Simply that I personally find them cringey and that you have a much greater chance of getting into trouble if you do it badly, which I would like to avoid

Edited May 26, 2022 by something_else

[Vrubel]

1 hour ago, something_else said:

I never said it was true, I said I think it's creepy which is just an opinion. Though probably one that I suspect many people would share

Fair enough, of course, this is what most people think because they are closed-off and judgemental towards it. This makes it more socially unacceptable and thus generally (mentally) harder than night game. Also, I am not really talking about "spam" approaching, as I bet most people would imagine day-game. I just mean approaching the occasional hot girl in a calibrated way.

1 hour ago, something_else said:

I mean ya kinda do (need to lie). If a girl asks what you're out doing and you say you're approaching girls on the street to get laid, it isn't gonna go down well

Haha no, first of all, I really don't go out to (just) get laid. Second, there are all kinds of ways to avoid lying. Like you can have a secondary activity. for example I love to combine it with going to museums (I have a free pass). But yeah in some approaches I do tell a white lie like "I am shopping" when really I am not. I am not going to pretend this is all pure and innocent. Though I do try to be as honest as possible and be in integrity with my emotions and thoughts. For example, this means not closing when the vibe is off.

1 hour ago, something_else said:

The issue I take is purely with leaving your house during the day to go looking for sex, and then spam approaching girls on the street

Again, I'm not saying that these things should be illegal or that you shouldn't do them. Simply that I personally find them cringey and that you have a much greater chance of getting into trouble if you do it badly, which I would like to avoid

Again I am not talking about cringy game forms. good day game that wins is as beautiful as a piece of art. Beginners will usually have a lot of "painful" cringy approaches but this is why day game forces you to grow more than night game (given that you persist, which most people do not). 

As for the "getting in trouble" part, this is mostly paranoia, sure there are some risks and you have to keep common sense. (I discussed reputational issues in an earlier posting). But in night game the risk of violence/intimidation/getting mugged/drugged and even std is much bigger.  

Edited May 26, 2022 by Vrubel

[Karmadhi]

4 hours ago, something_else said:

've never left my house just to daygame. I think that's when it becomes creepy and needy. If you wanna build a life that a girl wants to be a part of, it's better to be a dude who knows how to party and have a good time than a dude who leaves his house at 11am on a Saturday to go looking for sex on the street

Again, I'm not saying it can't work. I know it can work. But it feels like it has a lot less integrity, and requires a lot more 'not giving a fuck.'

That will depend on what is more natural for you.

For some people going on a saturday walk might be more "natural" and during that walk they can do a daygame session. They are technically living their life naturally and stumble on a bunch of girls.

For another person it can be a night out with friends for fun and they stumble on a bunch of girls.

You can make the arguments that going on a club just to pick up girls is also "needy". Keep in mind a lot of people, including me and Leo do not really enjoy clubs per say. If i go in a club just for fun it will not be more than once every 2-3 months. Any extra time i go it will be for pickup alone. I dont enjoy clubs as a place for socializing. 

I basically have to go out of my way to go to a club is what i am trying to say. For some people clubbing is part of their social life and they would go there often even if they had no intention of pickup. For them great. I am not like that though.

If you are then great for you.

I do agree that going out on a club or busy street/mall JUST for pickup is quite needy but this is how you get good. It sucks. Which is why a lot of guys complain about girls having it easy. They dont have to do shit.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Karmadhi

[Striving for more]

On 23/05/2022 at 10:51 PM, something_else said:

@Striving for more To me there’s no reason to hardcore daygame when nightgame A) Is actually fun B) Is far less risky C) Has more girls concentrated in a small area D) Has way more receptive girls

You're completely wrong. 

• Night Game is not fun unless you are extremely spot on with your wingman/social circle, money city, venue and logistics, majority of people aren't realistically gonna have this all perfect. 
• NG Is generally NOT fun. 
• NG is suffering, bad sleep, bad energy, bad bad people
• It's all suffering and it will make you broke, old, tired, depleted and distraught. 
• NG does NOT have a higher concentration of attractive women, DG Does for my cities. 
• With NG You gotta travel, que, Then there's no quality there, u gotta go the next place travel back, it's all so fucking messy. 

NG is LESS RISKY? Are u out of ur fucking mind? 

DG has no risk > It's you and the girl, sober. A feminine 130 PB women. No risk other than to your own ego, the only risk is the insane growth that you are afraid of. 

NG is SOO Risky. Maybe u only lived in safe places where people are nice & sane. I dunno this. 

Men in NG are hyper competitive, agressive, jealous, passive agressive, accusative. They just always get in the way. 

Women give mixed signals, waste your time, float around from guy to guy, they're low quality and drunk and fat eating greasy food. 

NG is dangerous as fuck. Better become a serious martial artist then. 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Striving for more

[Striving for more]

On 26/05/2022 at 4:36 PM, Karmadhi said:

I do agree that going out on a club or busy street/mall JUST for pickup is quite needy but this is how you get good. It sucks. Which is why a lot of guys complain about girls having it easy. They dont have to do shit.

I hate this over-use & obsession with "Needy". 

It's only needy if you cling to each girl you talk to.

Developing high value skills & character is not needy, and the end result of this game is to become less needy as a person. 

Most guys are needy AF Because they never gamed a lot, I attest to this how much I'd obsess & cling over the "special 1" before. 

It's also all about the energy you exude & context dependent. 

For E.G : I went out with an (incompatible) wingman to DG recently & imo he seemed very needy and creepy, yet we were both doing the same thing. It wasn't the action or practice that  made him needy and not me, it was the difference in our energies which is something more subtle. 

His entire aura was just creepy whereas even if I spam approached 100 women though, it wouldn't have been creepy or needy, as I said it's the difference in energy and mindset that really counts, not merely what you're doing. 

The wingman seemed kinda dead inside to me like he had nothing going on other than his (mediocre) pick up and his boring 9/5 job, he clearly had no desire to maximise his charisma, live an exciting life, break his patterns change city, change his awkward dress sense, or any other vision, whereas to me even though I really want to bang hot girls and enjoy life, I have a much larger vision, even in the domain of social life I have a larger vision than to merely be "good at day game", I love travel and culture and creativity and building skills and other things, maybe being relatively creepy is just the norm if you go along with the crowd and in turn become an empty guy, to be confined within the imprisonment of normality is to be creepy. 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Striving for more

[Striving for more]

On 25/05/2022 at 9:05 PM, Karmadhi said:

Since you are talking about creepyness, yes it is true that it is easier to creep girls during daygame but does not mean you cannot talk to them. What matters is where YOU FEEL more comfortable. Personally i am 10x more likely to creep out a girl during nightgame than daygame simply because nightgame environements make me so uncomfortable that i will become creepy. No matter how much i expose myself to them, i always feel like i am a shadow socially of what i can be in other settings. So in MY case, daygame is a better option.

Love this comment. 

I feel exact same way with 1 exception. 

If I have the right wingman/friends logistics & the venue suits me, then I can feel at ease with NG. 

But like 3-5 different factors have to line up. 

Whereas DG I can consistently feel the same & I know how it will be, NG is chaotic. 

DG is like constant variables, a reliable equation. 

Pickup or basically anything in life should NOT be turned into a dogma ... it is always about self - understanding & being the arbiter of your own life, there's so many methods or styles to approach it. 

Flexibility, requisite variety, experimentation, open - mindedness, consistency, focus, persistence, decisiveness concentration. You need all of these  attributes & at different times should double down on 1 of them. 

Experimentation & requisite variety > Find what works > consistency & persistence. 

Stops working/Plateau/Getting too complacent? > Back to more experimentation open mindedness flexibility. 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Striving for more

[something_else]

3 hours ago, Striving for more said:

You're completely wrong. 

• Night Game is not fun unless you are extremely spot on with your wingman/social circle, money city, venue and logistics, majority of people aren't realistically gonna have this all perfect. 
• NG Is generally NOT fun. 
• NG is suffering, bad sleep, bad energy, bad bad people
• It's all suffering and it will make you broke, old, tired, depleted and distraught. 
• NG does NOT have a higher concentration of attractive women, DG Does for my cities. 
• With NG You gotta travel, que, Then there's no quality there, u gotta go the next place travel back, it's all so fucking messy. 

NG is LESS RISKY? Are u out of ur fucking mind? 

DG has no risk > It's you and the girl, sober. A feminine 130 PB women. No risk other than to your own ego, the only risk is the insane growth that you are afraid of. 

NG is SOO Risky. Maybe u only lived in safe places where people are nice & sane. I dunno this. 

Men in NG are hyper competitive, agressive, jealous, passive agressive, accusative. They just always get in the way. 

Women give mixed signals, waste your time, float around from guy to guy, they're low quality and drunk and fat eating greasy food. 

NG is dangerous as fuck. Better become a serious martial artist then. 

You're not wrong, I could probably grow from daygame. But it sounds like you're super hung up about nightgame because my experience of it is not really like that at all. I find it super fun. It might just not be for you and that's fine, but it doesn't sound like you've had the right experience of nightgame yet. There's a reason lots of people enjoy going to clubs in the first place

Quote

bad bad people

...

Women give mixed signals, waste your time, float around from guy to guy, they're low quality and drunk and fat eating greasy food. 

The girls who go out partying are normal girls, the guys who go out partying are normal guys. They aren't any different from any other people.

If you go to any major club it's practically overflowing with attractive girls and they're all within a 30 second walk of each other. It's hard to find a place more concentrated with girls anywhere else

Quote

NG is SOO Risky. Maybe u only lived in safe places where people are nice & sane. I dunno this. 

...

NG is dangerous as fuck. Better become a serious martial artist then. 

You can go out at night in large cities to their major clubs without getting absolutely out of your mind drunk and you're going to be mostly safe, if you don't go around picking fights or being aggressive

You have to be really dumb, drunk, aggressive or unlucky to be in serious danger during nightgame.

If someone tries to mug you then you just give them your shit, and walk away unharmed. But that's not gonna be a common occurrence in most cities, especially if you stay in the busier parts.

I've barely even had a verbal altercation with anyone in a year of going out every weekend

Quote

DG has no risk

The risk in day game is to your reputation, which is a reasonably high risk in anything less than a giant city. At least for me. I do not want to be the guy who either gets known for (or gets in trouble for) going out hunting for pussy on the high st at 11am on a Saturday. It's just super cringey and 90% of the population are going to side against you for doing it

Yes ideally you should be a man and not give a fuck, but frankly this does not seem like a worthwhile risk for me. I'd rather just occasionally approach girls during my regular day that I find attractive 

Quote

Men in NG are hyper competitive, agressive, jealous, passive agressive, accusative. They just always get in the way. 

This is part of the fun  I do enjoy the drama of being in a club. It's rare you ever find yourself in such chaotic environments at any other time and it's amazing after you learn to be at ease and relax in that environment

Quote

Night Game is not fun unless you are extremely spot on with your wingman/social circle, money city, venue and logistics, majority of people aren't realistically gonna have this all perfect. 

It doesn't need to be that perfect. I live 25 minute drive away from the city I go out every Friday in and that works out alright for me. You do need a good amount of disposable income, I'll agree on that. I end up spending a fair amount, but to me it's worth it.

And I often go solo, and have no troubles with that either. Other than a few places that don't let you in solo, but that's easy enough to work around

[Razard86]

On 5/22/2022 at 4:11 PM, something_else said:

This is 100% an over-dramatisation, and deep down you know it

Its actually not, both sides demonize each other. I spent two years researching both sides. I could drop statistic after statistic and it could fill a whole page. Right now there is a War between Man and Woman in Modern Society. Its why modern dating is so toxic. Currently Modern Society is struggling with trying to come up with an understanding on the collective level on what roles do Men and Women have. Its toxic on both sides. 

The irony I find is both sides demonize each other and pretend that they aren't demonizing each other. Its basically a finger pointing contest. 

[puporing]

@Razard86 It's just my thoughts on this but if we had an UBI that guarantees basic survival and dignity things would probably improve.

[something_else]

1 hour ago, Razard86 said:

Its actually not, both sides demonize each other. I spent two years researching both sides. I could drop statistic after statistic and it could fill a whole page. Right now there is a War between Man and Woman in Modern Society. Its why modern dating is so toxic. Currently Modern Society is struggling with trying to come up with an understanding on the collective level on what roles do Men and Women have. Its toxic on both sides. 

The irony I find is both sides demonize each other and pretend that they aren't demonizing each other. Its basically a finger pointing contest. 

I agree with most of what you said, it’s certainly framed in a healthier way than the guy who I quoted previously

What is an absolute over-dramatisation is the “the feminists control the media and they are coming to get us” mindset

 

[Razard86]

2 hours ago, puporing said:

@Razard86 It's just my thoughts on this but if we had an UBI that guarantees basic survival and dignity things would probably improve.

UBI? Are you talking about the Universal Basic Income? Or something else?