All the MBTI stereotypes are accurate??

[Carl-Richard]

6 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

In other words.. "basic logic precedes emotion"

There you go, @Carl-Richard

 

REEEEEE

Then a sea sponge or amoeba uses logic. This also becomes weird when you start talking about how sensors (ESFJs) aren't logical.

I think a better word you're looking for is "order" or meaningful behavior. Organisms have to behave in a particular way in order to survive: their bodies are ordered (homeostasis), and they interact with the environment in an ordered fashion to maintain that homeostasis. However, most people tend to reserve "logic" for higher-order survival behaviors, like high-level cognition, abstract reasoning and narrative-making.

 

I've written about some of this before (which you don't have to read):

On 9.1.2022 at 8:55 PM, Carl-Richard said:

You basically know most of it already, but Jordan Peterson has it the other way around; that meaning creates narrative. I'll try to show how it works: 

"Sentience" (perceiving/feeling), which is the prerequisite to "sapience" (thinking), is a survival trait. In other words, we evolved the ability to feel things like motivation (e.g. to food and mates) and aversion (e.g. to poisons and predators) in order to catalyze "meaningful" movement through the environment; meaningful in the sense that it's ordered (not random) and goal-oriented (aimed at survival). Not coincidentally, what we commonly call sentient beings are highly mobile animals. How exactly "goal-oriented movement" represents meaning gets a little clearer as we move on further down my narrative structure :

A perception, or a feeling, is an internal/cognitive representation of an external sensation (also includes intrasomatic sensations; inside of one's own body). Likewise, a thought is an internal representation, but of what?: of a narrative structure, derived from perceptions.

To derive a narrative from perceptions, you first need to go from concrete experiences to abstraction; from images to icon, from sensation to symbols. You do this by taking a set of perceptions and abstracting out a symbolic representation, effectively producing indeed a symbol (e.g. "cat" or "flower"). 

To then get a narrative, you need to arrange a collection symbols linearly (over time) across a contextual frame (a situation). Then you end up with a story: "the cat walked past the flower." Not coincidentally, symbols, times and situations are baked into language itself, and humans are the only animal with a complex language, indeed because we're the only species with "sapience", or an internal narrative structure.

Meaningful stories either confer a direct survival advantage or serve as accurate representations of goal-oriented movement, which can apply to everything from religious stories to scientific models. When you feel moved by a story (either emotionally or rationally), it's because it touches something deep within you, just like when you're moved by a emotion or perception (again, notice how being "moved" is all about "movement").

In other words, meaning has a thorough line from the lowest to the highest aspects of survival, and it shapes the very way our being is constructed, from the level of sensations and perceptions to the level of thoughts and stories.

 

Generally, I think you're using "logic" in a very loose way, and it's confusing.

[Carl-Richard]

7 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

I had selective mutism too in school.  I was always "the quiet kid".  In no way suggests I'm an introvert.

Yeah yeah, you and your cognitive functions reductionism. It's obviously the case that extroverted MBTI types correlate somewhat with trait extroversion (we talked about this before with ESFJs), and I think that applies to ENFPs as well, certainly if we go by stereotypes on personality database.

[thisintegrated]

10 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Yeah yeah, you and your cognitive functions reductionism. It's obviously the case that extroverted MBTI types correlate somewhat with trait extroversion (we talked about this before with ESFJs), and I think that applies to ENFPs as well, certainly if we go by stereotypes on personality database.

Have you checked the stereotypes for ENFP and INFP?  Which "correlate" with you more?

[Carl-Richard]

17 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

Have you checked the stereotypes for ENFP and INFP?  Which "correlate" with you more?

INFP by far ☺

[thisintegrated]

5 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

INFP by far ☺

You would say this??

 

@Carl-Richard

Interesting.

Edited May 20, 2022 by thisintegrated

[Carl-Richard]

6 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

You would say this??

I have no pile of abandoned projects or quasi-hyper-social patterns to point to as a supposed Duracell Bunny ENFP. When I think about it, my dad is much more likely to be an ENFP (but he also has bipolar type 1). He has had like 10 different variably skilled jobs and a dozen businesses, met tons of people, runs a Facebook page etc. Other than that, he is pretty much like me.

[Preety_India]

3 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

supposed Duracell Bunny ENFP.

Oh God, stop it. You're making me laugh so hard,my tummy hurts. 

Duracell Bunny omg 

 

[Carl-Richard]

4 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Oh God, stop it. You're making me laugh so hard,my tummy hurts. 

Duracell Bunny omg 

? ?

[thisintegrated]

9 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

? ?

So you identify more as a furry than a Duracell Bunny?

[Carl-Richard]

5 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

So you identify more as a furry than a Duracell Bunny?

Oh yeah definitely ?

Btw, I was going off of these:

Quote

INFP personalities are true idealists, always looking for the good, even in the worst people and events, finding ways to make everything better. While they can be seen as calm, reserved, or even shy, INFPs have a passion and fire that can really shine. Adding about 4% of the population, the risk of feeling misunderstood is unfortunately very high for this type of personality - but when they meet similar people, the harmony they feel will be a source of joy and inspiration.

 

Quote

Moving quickly from one project to another, ENFPs are willing to consider almost any possibility and often develop multiple solutions to a problem. Their energy is stimulated by new people and experiences. ENFP people may not follow through on decisions or projects, and risk burning out from over-committing or following every possibility. They may also have trouble determining priorities.

 

It's what popped up when I googled "MBTI stereotypes ENFP/INFP".

[thisintegrated]

5 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Oh yeah definitely ?

???

 

5 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Btw, I was going off of these:

It's what popped up when I googled "MBTI stereotypes ENFP/INFP".

Fair enough.  But don't stop looking.  It's easy to mix up the two.

They have the same functions, so it all really depends on "are you more I or E"?  You're definitely in the top 5% in terms of extroversion on this forum, so unless the function order reveals some important detail, I'd lean towards ENFP.  Another thing to keep in mind is your "energy" levels, and how they may influence your self-typing.  E.g. people with ADHD or autism may only behave like their true extrovert selves after taking stimulants, and may otherwise just not have the drive to appear "extrovert like".  This is far more common than you'd think.

Edited May 20, 2022 by thisintegrated

[Carl-Richard]

6 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

You're definitely in the top 5% in terms of extroversion on this forum, so unless the function order reveals some important detail, I'd lead towards ENFP.

Extroverted as in forum activity? I would think that the least active members are the most extroverted, because they're out doing stuff

[thisintegrated]

14 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Extroverted as in forum activity? I would think that the least active members are the most extroverted, because they're out doing stuff

Extroversion is only correlated with "outgoingness" in feeler sensor extroverts.

E.g. An ENTP's extroverted function is Ne.  Ne has no need for people.  Ne is all about potential/future/ideas/innovation.  It's mostly Fe that makes ENTPs want people.  ENFPs are extroverts like ENTPs, except they don't have Fe and care about spending time with people even less.

Also.. Intuitive extroverts will often prefer socializing on a forum like this.  It's hard to find intuitives irl, so if you're surrounded by sensors you may feel more alone than if you went on a forum to talk about think you're actually interested in.  If I was an sensor, I'd be content with just talking about ordinary things with family.  But as I'm not a sensor, I'd feel more alone talking with them than talking to strangers on the internet.  Intuitive extroverts need to talk about intuitive topics, and for most the only place they'll get that is online.

Edited May 20, 2022 by thisintegrated

[Preety_India]

8 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Extroverted as in forum activity? I would think that the least active members are the most extroverted, because they're out doing stuff

Exactly lol

 

[Carl-Richard]

3 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

Extroversion is only correlated with "outgoingness" in feeler sensor extroverts.

Sounds like a convenient assumption 

 

4 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

Ne is all about potential/future/ideas/innovation.

Ne on its own, sure, but paired with say Te (which is more dominant in an ENFP than an INFP), these potential ideas are more likely to be manifested in the external world, and that requires interacting with it more, i.e. you're out doing stuff. Other intuitives who have a prominent Te instead have a strong Ni, which is probably less conducive to extroversion (you tend to stick to one project and bury yourself in it), except maybe ENTJs with their tertiary Se.

 

18 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

Ne has no need for people. It's mostly Fe that makes ENTPs want people.  ENFPs are extroverts like ENTPs, except they don't have Fe and care about spending time with people even less.

Maybe they want people more, but if you're doing stuff out in the world, especially intuitive projects which tend to be ambitious, you will run into people sooner or later. An ESFP that likes experiencing cool things will most likely be doing it with other people, even though there is no Fe involved. My ESFP cousin is the most extroverted person I know.

[thisintegrated]

3 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Maybe they want people more, but if you're doing stuff out in the world, especially intuitive projects which tend to be ambitious, you will run into people sooner or later. An ESFP that likes experiencing cool things will most likely be doing it with other people, even though there is no Fe involved. My ESFP cousin is the most extroverted person I know.

Te likes team-work, team meetings, etc., but that's not exactly the same as being "social and outgoing".  Socializing for fun is an Fe thing.

 

3 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Sounds like a convenient assumption 

Not an assumption.  Just because a function is extroverted doesn't mean it needs people.  Only some extroverted functions can make someone want to socialize.

[Carl-Richard]

20 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

Socializing for fun is an Fe thing.

Then why are ESFPs so extroverted?

[MarkKol]

On 5/18/2022 at 1:15 AM, thisintegrated said:

See how it's all super specific and is nothing but "stupid stereotypes" ..yet

I discovered the whole Myers Briggs personalities thing a few days ago, and I found it fascinating. Did someone actually say this?

[thisintegrated]

15 minutes ago, MarkKol said:

I discovered the whole Myers Briggs personalities thing a few days ago, and I found it fascinating. Did someone actually say this?

Most people consider MBTI to be nonsense, and the stereotypes are typically seen as a joke as they doesn't seem scientific.  The stereotypes aren't objective, so most people just dismiss them.

 

33 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Then why are ESFPs so extroverted?

Not all ESFPs.  Depends on the ESFP's Fi values.  They're hyper-aware of the physical world, and live in a world of "people/places/statuses", and so they're likely to have many connections and know many people.

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, thisintegrated said:

Not all ESFPs.  Depends on the ESFP's Fi values.  They're hyper-aware of the physical world, and live in a world of "people/places/statuses", and so they're likely to have many connections and know many people.

Then it's the same reasoning with ENFPs (but I'm not saying they're equal; certainly SeTe > NeTe): both experience a decent amount of social interactions as a side effect of their decent-strong extroverted functions that pull them out into the world, but not as a main driving force (as with Fe). Before you equate NeTe with NiTe, remember that Ne is more scattered, which will on average lead to a higher volume of social interactions.

So to summarize, I think ENFP is at least a little more extroverted than INTJ, probably a little less than ENTJ, but certainly less than ESFP. The least extroverted of them all is INFP (Te inferior bahaha). So I'm not saying ENFP is like 80s Mötley Crüe level outgoing, but certainly a bit.