All the MBTI stereotypes are accurate??

[Carl-Richard]

17 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

 It's not that being a FeSi somehow causes the parents to spoil you. 

I actually think that is the more likely explanation. There is a transactional process going on between child and parent (they co-develop), and ESFJs with their social intelligence and extravagant extroversion would probably be very good at shaping their parents' behavior according to their needs.

ESFJ using their traits to shape their parents is also generally (just a type of explanation) more readily able to account for the specificity of the situation than one parental trait (propensity to spoil kids) supposedly creating excess ESFJs. I mean, just look at the traits that you claimed that ESFJs lack (creativity etc.): you haven't really made a distinction between different sensors at all, let alone the extraverts.

[thisintegrated]

4 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

I actually think that is the more likely explanation. There is a transactional process going on between child and parent (they co-develop), and ESFJs with their social intelligence and extravagant extroversion would probably be very good at shaping their parents' behavior according to their needs.

ESFJ using their traits to shape their parents is also generally (just a type of explanation) more readily able to account for the specificity of the situation than one parental trait (propensity to spoil kids) supposedly creating excess ESFJs. I mean, just look at the traits that you claimed that ESFJs lack (creativity etc.): you haven't really made a distinction between different sensors at all, let alone the extraverts.

That's just silly.  People aren't born with their personality.  A personality is formed to adapt to the environment.  A kid will develop in a way to fill in the gaps in the family.  You've probably heard "opposites attract", which suggests that compatibility depends on how well people complete each other.  But this isn't limited to just romantic relationships.  This is how communities operate, in general, at all levels.  Kids adapt to become whatever's missing in the family, and that's how a personality is formed.  Imagine if this wasn't the case, and a family didn't have a kid who's good with computers.  This is very rare.

 

5 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

????

ESFJs care more than any other type about having kids.  It's their life goal, basically.  That's why most moms are this type.

[Carl-Richard]

44 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

That's just silly.  People aren't born with their personality. A personality is formed to adapt to the environment. 

Well yeah. I was talking about the transactional model of development, which is about how the child (C) adapts to the social environment (E) and how the environment adapts to the child.

Personality is of course a mix of nature and nurture. Biological predispositions to ESFJ traits and the child's reaction to the mother's behavior both do matter, but not simply that: they are interconnected.  

I'm still waiting for you to explain why spoiling your kids leads to ESFJs specifically and not just sensors in general. You gave a list of all the ways that ESFJs are not intuitive (creativity etc.), but none of it was specific to ESFJs. On the other hand, predispositions to ESFJ traits (sociability and extroversion), that are able to influence the mother's propensity to spoil, is of course an explanation that is specific to ESFJs (or at least more so than your explanation ).

[thisintegrated]

7 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Well yeah. I was talking about the transactional model of development, which is about how the child (C) adapts to the social environment (E) and how the environment adapts to the child.

Personality is of course a mix of nature and nurture. Biological predispositions to ESFJ traits and the child's reaction to the mother's behavior both matter, but not simply that: they are interconnected.  

I'm still waiting for you to explain why spoiling your kids leads to ESFJs and not just sensors in general. You gave a list of all the ways that ESFJs are not intuitive (creativity etc.), but none of it was specific to ESFJs. On the other hand, predispositions to ESFJ traits (sociability and extroversion), that are able to influence the mother's propensity to spoil, is of course an explanation that is specific to ESFJs.

ESFJ was just a good a example.

Why are INTJs logical?  Because they want to be.. because they need to be.

Why aren't ESTJs logical?  Because they don't need to be.. and so they don't want to be and never become it.

 

No recognition of its value = no adaptations made to get there

Edited May 18, 2022 by thisintegrated

[AtheisticNonduality]

@thisintegrated @Carl-Richard Identical twins have different personalities, interests, inflections even though they have the same DNA.

[Carl-Richard]

1 minute ago, thisintegrated said:

ESFJ was just a good a example.

Well sure. I'm all for deteriorating the concept of personality types  

 

3 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

Why are INTJs logical?  Because they want to be.. because they need to be.

Why aren't ESTJs logical?  Because they don't need to be.. and so they don't want to be.

When did logic get synonymous with intuition? 

[Carl-Richard]

1 minute ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

@thisintegrated @Carl-Richard Identical twins have different personalities, interests, inflections even though they have the same DNA.

Duh(?)

[thisintegrated]

4 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

@thisintegrated @Carl-Richard Identical twins have different personalities, interests, inflections even though they have the same DNA.

Exactly.

 

3 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Duh.

I don't think you're quite getting it yet though.

 

3 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Well sure. I'm all for deteriorating the concept of personality types  

What

 

3 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

When did logic get synonymous with intuition? 

I was using INTJ as an example that needs determine one's personality.  If a person's needs are x, they develop into an INTJ.  If their needs are y, they develop into an ESFJ.  This applies to identical twins too, as Atheistic pointed out.

Edited May 18, 2022 by thisintegrated

[AtheisticNonduality]

2 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Duh(?)

Duh, you be wrong.

[Preety_India]

22 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

I've realized something.  Almost every stereotype is accurate about every type.

 

ESFJ:  (https://www.personality-database.com/profile?personality=4&category=30)

How is that possible?  Well think about it.  Why are ESFJs considered "likely to have been spoiled as children"?  It's not that being a FeSi somehow causes the parents to spoil you.  People only become ESFJs when their lives are so easy they have no need to develop logic, no need to develop creativity, no need to be smart, no need to achieve anything as everything's already provided for them.  When life doesn't demand anything of you, instead of developing logic/intelligence, you develop a sensitivity to emotion, or sensory experience.  This leads to being prone to BPD, mood swings, self-pity, etc.  and is why stereotypes are accurate.  

 

INTJ:  (https://www.personality-database.com/profile?personality=15&category=30)

This applies to every other type too.  E.g. INTJs are loners, atheists, cat people, independent, dark, likely to hate everyone, unlikely to want kids, unlikely to drink alcohol, unlikely to smile in photos, far less likely to be into anime than INTPs, likely to wear all black, likely to say "I told you so" or "actually, no one asked you, so..." or "..and?" or "irrelevant", or "enough!".

See how it's all super specific and is nothing but "stupid stereotypes" ..yet ~90% of INTJs will relate to every single one of these points.  INTJs are, typically, just intellectually insecure people who feel a need to prove themselves, be it to themselves or to the world.  They are people without a well-defined place in society, who maybe don't fully fit in, and want to prove their worth by developing themselves to the point where they feel no one can look down on them.  Society gives them an identity of inferiority, so they try to compensate by becoming superior in some specific area they've deemed [with their Fi] to be of value.

 

 

Have a look and see if your type's stereotypes are accurate.  I think this is actually a very good way of confirming a type.

Note:  Here's what you want to be selecting:

This is ridiculous. You do too much generalization. 

Bpd doesn't develop because life doesn't demand something. It develops from trauma. You do your research only to serve your own agenda. 

You're full of bias. 

 

[Carl-Richard]

3 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

Duh, you be wrong.

Where lol? Can you quote me on it?

[AtheisticNonduality]

@Carl-Richard Basically the point is that environmental factors play a large role because of how twins might turn out completely different based on what they develop in themselves because of their separate situations. But there is some internal genetic component that it is crucial, so the only way you were wrong was not by emphasizing the external factors enough like Joseph was.

[Carl-Richard]

24 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

I was using INTJ as an example that needs determine one's personality.  If a person's needs are x, they develop into an INTJ.  If their needs are y, they develop into an ESFJ.

No, you're trying to present evidence for your claim that "all the MBTI stereotypes are accurate", like you say in the title. It's not a coincidence you're talking about MBTI. If your only point was that needs determine personality, you could've gone for anything from Maslow's Hierarchical needs to Bowlby's Attachment styles, heck even the above Sameroff's Transactional theory, or even common sense.

[thisintegrated]

6 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

This is ridiculous. You do too much generalization. 

Bpd doesn't develop because life doesn't demand something. It develops from trauma. You do your research only to serve your own agenda. 

You're full of bias. 

It's maybe not 100% straightforward to understand, but that is how it works, for the most part.

BPD often is influenced by genetics/trauma, but it only manifests as "the crazy, unstable, self-absorbed woman" in some personality types.

INTPs with BPD would for sure not look the way you'd picture the stereotypical person with BPD.

 

To be the "crazy" kind of BPD person, you'd have to take your suffering seriously.  Your life would have to revolve around emotions.  You'd have to be entitled and not used to hardships.  Otherwise, you wouldn't even care or think much of your mood swings.

[Carl-Richard]

6 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

@Carl-Richard Basically the point is that environmental factors play a large role because of how twins might turn out completely different based on what they develop in themselves because of their separate situations.

I never contradicted that. You can try to quote me on it.

 

7 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

the only way you were wrong was not by emphasizing the external factors enough like Joseph was.

Emphasizing? You mean only focusing on external factors? 

[thisintegrated]

8 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

No, you're trying to present evidence for your claim that "all the MBTI stereotypes are accurate", like you say in the title. It's not a coincidence you're talking about MBTI. If your only point was that needs determine personality, you could've gone for anything from Maslow's Hierarchical Needs to Bowlby's Attachment Styles, heck even the above Sameroff's Transactional Theory, or even common sense.

I thought detailed analysis of two types would be evidence enough for you.  That was really just a proof of concept so you get the point and go on the website to confirm for yourself.  I'm not gonna write a paragraph on every single type, and explain how each stereotypical trait is accurate.

Edited May 18, 2022 by thisintegrated

[Carl-Richard]

1 minute ago, thisintegrated said:

I thought detailed analysis of two types would be evidence enough for you.  That was really just a proof of concept so you go on the website and confirm for yourself.  I'm not gonna write a paragraph on every single type, and explain how each stereotypical trait is accurate.

Maybe you should. See if you get any problems with making distinctions, especially between different sensors  

[thisintegrated]

6 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Maybe you should. See if you get any problems with making distinctions, especially between different sensors  

Easy.  ISTPs are absolutely nothing like ESFJs, although they're both sensors.  Just checked, and their stereotypes are accurate too.  Go have a look if you don't believe me.

[thisintegrated]

4 minutes ago, Benton said:

Am I a stereotype?

ENFP-A

I think that's Carl's type.

You're definitely Carl-like in that you respond to half of my posts, so I'd say yes.

 

https://www.personality-database.com/profile?personality=12&category=30

You tell me if these stereotypes fit you.

Edited May 18, 2022 by thisintegrated

[thisintegrated]

1 minute ago, Benton said:

@thisintegrated Easy criteria to fulfill 

https://www.personality-database.com/profile?personality=12&category=30

????