Leo Doesn't Make Sense Anymore

[axiom]

@machiavelli Don't be depressed. It's not possible to achieve this realisation from watching a video. As an enlightened master, I can reassure you that the only way to achieve true realisation is to read the following words and take heed:

The world sits on top of a giant turtle, and this turtle is standing on the back of an even larger turtle, which itself is part of a column of increasingly large turtles that continues indefinitely.

If this doesn't fix your depression instantly you are not contemplating it deeply enough.

[axiom]

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

My videos document my process of figuring out the ultimate nature of reality. This is what the process looks like.

And the truth is so radically different from the common perception of reality, that at some point your videos will inevitably seem like utter gibberish to most people. 

At some point you'll recognise that the English language - or in fact any known human language - is a poor vehicle for conveying ultimate truth. You'll begin a project to reduce the number of syllables used per sentence, and eventually you'll speak only the most profitable sounds that communicate directly with Wernicke's area of the left temporal lobe. In this way, you'll bypass the compression functions of the auditory cortex and thus reduce erroneous interpretations to the bare minimum.

Instant enlightenment for everyone.

Edited May 18, 2022 by axiom

[zurew]

2 hours ago, Alex_R said:

SO there are no copies, its all just ONE, there never were another bubbles.

You don't know that, how would you know?

Do you understand just because its impossibble to know, that != There isn't any.

The whole point is "verifying stuff in your direct experience". How can you verify something in your direct experience, if it is outside of your direct experience and you can't escape your consciousness, because everything is in your consciousness.

2 Absolute solipsistic bubbles can't know about each other.

So it doesn't matter for you, if there are any other solipsistic bubbles or not. Its just a possiblity that can't be verified. Literally nothing changes, your dreaming will go on for eternity.

Edited May 18, 2022 by zurew

[machiavelli]

@zurew Multiple consciousness is not possible. Its first time on earth I am hearing somebody saying multiple absolute/ infinite consciousness .

Every non-dual teacher said Consciousness is one and singular. The very fact LEO is imagining other Infinite consciousness , says he is imagining them and he was not in infinite state . Or he was somewhat was in lower consciousness state.

Edited May 18, 2022 by machiavelli

[ZzzleepingBear]

I think the biggest problem is that Leo is so persistent in refering to his talks as teachings. I like to listen to all kind of people and their experiences wheter that is someone tripping balls or NDEs etc. Alot of those with NDEs for example, are more often than not, making a disclaimer that this is just what they have experienced for themselves and what is shown to be true for them.

As soon as you call something a teaching, you put yourself in a whole other relationship with your average viewer, and there will be certain expectations in such a relationship.

I have listened to about half of his latest video, and as a trippy experience it sounds fine, it's all good. But if you as a creator insist on lumping in your trippy experience as a teaching of some sort, that is where it turns into wordsallad when put in such context. Some like to eat it up, some don't, and that is probably why actualized.org get a bit of a cultish vibe from those people who are not spellbound by Leo's personal insights.

[SQAAD]

@Yarco

21 hours ago, Yarco said:

My initial reaction to the latest video was genuinely "Leo's finally lost it". Of course the obvious counterpoint is that I'm not spiritually enlightened and I'm not actualized enough to understand. I'm open to that. But realize how extremely cult-y this sounds to even a moderately interested subscriber, let alone someone coming across the work for the first time.

Let's assume what's said in the latest video is completely true. Even so, some things are so crazy to say that they aren't worth saying publicly. All it does is destroy credibility and make Actualized.org as a whole look insane. If the first solipsism video was too advanced and dangerous to release to the masses, this latest one absolutely is. Not because of danger to the viewer but just because it's optics suicide. We're definitely at a point where even hardcore non-enlightened followers can no longer follow along.

"I'm talking to other Gods and technically they're real but also I'm the only one that's real and I created them, also all of this can only be realized on drugs" Like what is the average person to make of this.

If the goal is to niche down to only the most hardcore followers, or leave something behind to be recognized for your genius hundreds of years down the road, then this is the right path. But if I considered myself the most awakened being in reality, I would personally want to put more emphasis on bringing non-enlightened people up to Sadhguru, Peter Ralston levels first. Instead of trying to elevate the top 1% even higher. I feel like appealing to the masses would make a more meaningful and needed shift in consciousness in the short term. Otherwise it's like trying to have a stage coral conversation with a medieval peasant.

A long time ago there was an analogy of holding a mirror up in front of a donkey and saying "this is you!" No matter how many times you try to explain it, the donkey's mind is not capable of understanding. With this latest video, 90% of us are donkeys that literally can't comprehend. 9% are taking it as belief and mental masturbation. Far less than 1% who ever watch it will ever understand and experience it for themselves.

I've become much more skeptical of psychedelics in general.

There are psychedelics like shrooms, which in low doses provide a very crystal clear experience for me. Without adverse effects. But if you were to take massive doses of any psychedelic , you can delude yourself.

It is funny how drug users who abuse meth and crack cocaine can also experience hallucinations such as coke bugs and other tacticle hallucinations. If someone told us that he was getting englightned by using meth we wouldn't take that person seriously.

There is something to be said about extremely potent psychedelics such as 5meo dmt and etc. Generally i am of the opinion that when something is so extremely potent, it doesn't come without a cost. I don't know what that cost is. Nor do we have any extensive studies on this stuff.

It is analogous to taking steroids . If you were to take testosterone even at high doses you don't see anything incredible. But if you take something like trenbolone then you would become like a mutant and also pay a bigger price .

Or lets say you were to smoke marijuana vs crack cocaine. The high of crack would be x100 more strong but also the cost you would pay later, would be much much higher.

Thats why im more skeptical of incredibly potent psychedelics nowadays. Maybe what they call enlightment  after a certain point is just an incredible drug high.

Leo has definitely abused psychedelics in my opinion . This caused him to beleive that he is more awake than anyone else and pissing away at Rupert Spira, Eckhart Tolle etc.

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by SQAAD

[integral]

He made no contradictions, he built on top of his previous discoveries, to be able to see it requires a very imaginative mind.

Whatever you think solipsism is, that's not it  in fact what you think it is, is highly unimaginative and not pushing the boundaries of your mind. 

The linear logical Mind that doesn't think in infinities and paradoxes, so it sees contradictions.

Paradoxes need to be experience in a specific state and cannot be rationalized by a highly human centric state, the default state.

Edited May 18, 2022 by integral

[machiavelli]

@zurew

What does it mean when Leo says we all Godheads are playing collective dream? Does it mean in my dream other people are Soverign and infinite? Like for example we all are different infinities and each of us dreaming each other up in this collective dream?

or Collective dream means separate dreams dreamt up by different godheads completely disconnected to each others dream?

[jimwell]

11 hours ago, Razard86 said:

....My friend intuition IS EXPERIENCE. Intuition is a divine download....when it is received you instantly know. All knowledge comes from direct experience so if you instantly know....how is that possible? Because the experience is being DOWNLOADED INTO YOU. You have forgotten and the knowledge you originally had is being downloaded into you, knowledge that came from your experience.

It's more accurate to say that intuition is the divine download of knowledge or wisdom. I have never experienced what my recent intuition has revealed. Did you mean I experienced it in my past life? I don't think reincarnation is true. 

[ZzzleepingBear]

14 minutes ago, integral said:

He made no contradictions, he built on top of his previous discoveries, to be able to see it requires a very imaginative mind.

I think that is a good summary of the core problem with calling it a teaching. To have a very imaginative mind.

If that where the case that a very imaginative mind is the answear. I could simply say that all Einsteins callculations was wrong, they can be summarized by 1+1=3, this is such a profound answear that it would boggle the mind of all scientists except the most greatest mind in the universe.

"Look, I am the greatest Math genius that ever lived, you just can't grasp the super advanced callculations I have computed for expressing this seemingly impossible calculation.. Yet! But I'll teach you if you are willing to stay with me, inorder to learn this advaced math that even Einstein couldn't grasp with his limited mind. 1+1=3 you just don't see it yet!!"

You can bask in all kinds of absurd claims, as long as you keep them alive with a very imaginative mind. 

[zurew]

25 minutes ago, machiavelli said:

@zurew

What does it mean when Leo says we all Godheads are playing collective dream? Does it mean in my dream other people are Soverign and infinite? Like for example we all are different infinities and each of us dreaming each other up in this collective dream?

or Collective dream means separate dreams dreamt up by different godheads completely disconnected to each others dream?

Think about it  how much more clarity have you gotten so far, from us collectively discussing this topic?

I don't want to pull the zen master card here,but I think that me answering your questions (or anyone answering your questions) just makes you even more confused about this topic, so i would suggest to investigate it yourself.

Note, that I or anyone here could be deluded.

Please don't give your authority to anyone (Not even for Leo).

Edited May 18, 2022 by zurew

[machiavelli]

@zurew Please answer this last question. Because if our dreams are connected it would mean my dream is not soverign.

But leo said in his video that Godheads are having collective dream. What does it mean?

does it mean separate independent dreams or shared dream where every finite selve is fueled by different infinity?

 

[axiom]

@machiavelli

He means that different deities representing absolute consciousnesses have separate independent dreams.

To put it another way, he means that YOU (not we), are finite, and dream this dream as a point of infinite regression backwards - like how a black hole can expend a small quantity of light.

Also, you have to bear in mind that each example of one infinity is actually several, and is expanding outwards.

When you become infinite, infinity as you see it will be different from the infinity you had before you were seeking it.  What this means is that the world sits on the back of a giant turtle, in turn standing on the back of another giant turtle, and so on...

In essence, it's turtles all the way down. I hope this helps.

Edited May 18, 2022 by axiom

[Danioover9000]

@machiavelli

1 hour ago, machiavelli said:

@zurew Please answer this last question. Because if our dreams are connected it would mean my dream is not soverign.

But leo said in his video that Godheads are having collective dream. What does it mean?

does it mean separate independent dreams or shared dream where every finite selve is fueled by different infinity?

 

   It means that I, the thing that exists all alone, in this dream, is the real deal. However, in Solipsism, if true, doesn't just mean that everbody around me is an illusion right away, because while I'm dreaming myself this human life, they are also dreaming their human life too, in the case of human beings.

   Maybe it depends on so many factors prior to receiving this insight, like what your stage of development is, your cognitive and moral development, personality typing and ego development, your general and specific life experiences, and other lines of development, in this case your intuition. If you've been following Leo for 5 plus years, before tripping Leo, the older version of Leo admitted he had intuitively grasped his truths through intuition and questioning. Which means that he had to do lots of questions and develop his intuition to the point of groking the insight from those psychedelics. Even Mike Tyson, who took 5 meo DMT, hadn't grasped infinity and god, so it begs the queston of what qualities and developments are needed to grok it, because others still misunderstood those insights from those psychedelics, yet Leo hasn't.

Edited May 18, 2022 by Danioover9000

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, axiom said:

At some point you'll recognise that the English language - or in fact any known human language - is a poor vehicle for conveying ultimate truth.

I have reached that point long ago.

[axiom]

@Leo Gura Silence is the best teaching, right? Admittedly it’s less entertaining.

[Leo Gura]

@axiom Don't be a smartass.

[axiom]

@Leo Gura You’re misinterpreting me. Silence is indeed the best teacher. All efforts to circumscribe reality using finite logical systems of any kind - e.g. human language - are incomplete (as per Godel). 

The best method to refine teaching thus initially involves employing more concise language, and ultimately - when pushed far enough - ends up in silence. Silence has no constraints.

Edited May 18, 2022 by axiom

[QandC]

Can't you see 

On 2022-05-17 at 6:57 AM, SQAAD said:

I've watched the last video of Leo and i don't understand some things. Basically his solipsism goes out the window but at the same he still insists on it.

I really don't know what to make of this. I don't know how he defines solipsism so maybe there is some misunderstanding. But how can you admit that you can't know whether other bubbles exists (finally he admits that) and then still insist that your Consciousness is Absolute. This does not make any sense whatsoever.

And then he goes on imagining, fantasizing about connecting with other bubbles and not taking seriously the distinction between fantasy and reality. This is dangerous territory right there.

Some of Leos latest teaching have become really dangerous to my mental health. I am starting to seriously consider all the accusations of him being a cult leader. He certainly knows which buttons to push. But i always defended him. Now i am starting to think that maybe it is time to leave this abusive relationship. This is how it feels the last couple of years.

 

If you go so far that it lets you affect your mental health then honestly: Wtf are you doing? 

How can you trust ANY teacher that much except for yourself? Leo has stated so many times that it's your own experience and journey that counts the most. Everything else is secondary. His teachings are meant to be used as a guidance/motivation. Not the ultimate truth. 

Imagine it like this: He's watching a movie, and he's slowly explaining the entire movie bit by bit. But then of course the movie can change, and things can get contradictive. He himself hasn't even finished the movie yet, therefore he cannot know how it ends, if it even does which it probably doesn't. 

The point he is actually trying to make is for you to go watch the movie for yourself. His words can be a motivation for you to go and watch it, and he can analyze it through his own personal experience, and that could help you, but ultimately you have to go watch it to understand

Why make this about HIM?

You haven't learned anything it seems. Or maybe you have but you've def. missed the grand point. 

Sorry for sounding rude

Edited May 18, 2022 by QandC

[SQAAD]

@QandC

1 hour ago, QandC said:

Can't you see 

If you go so far that it lets you affect your mental health then honestly: Wtf are you doing? 

 

I am not doing it . It is doing me. Mental health is not a simple matter. 

 

1 hour ago, QandC said:

 

How can you trust ANY teacher that much except for yourself? Leo has stated so many times that it's your own experience and journey that counts the most. Everything else is secondary. His teachings are meant to be used as a guidance/motivation. Not the ultimate truth. 

Imagine it like this: He's watching a movie, and he's slowly explaining the entire movie bit by bit. But then of course the movie can change, and things can get contradictive. He himself hasn't even finished the movie yet, therefore he cannot know how it ends, if it even does which it probably doesn't. 

The point he is actually trying to make is for you to go watch the movie for yourself. His words can be a motivation for you to go and watch it, and he can analyze it through his own personal experience, and that could help you, but ultimately you have to go watch it to understand

Why make this about HIM?

You haven't learned anything it seems. Or maybe you have but you've def. missed the grand point. 

Sorry for sounding rude

Stop patronizing.  Leo's last video is very problematic in my opinion and therefore thats why i wrote this post .

One way his video is problematic is this: He talks about connecting to some  other God. Then he questions if he really did talk to some other God. And then he deprecates the distinction between actuality vs fantasy just because Reality is Imagination. This is very dangerous and makes no sense. Just because Reality is Imagination , it does not mean there isn't a difference between actuality and fantasy. 

It is like saying because Reality is Real, then anything i imagine is also real. Yes everything is real but still there is a huge differerence between making stuff up in your head and actually experiencing something actual. Blurring this distinction is extremely dangerous. You can not survive on eating fantastical apples even if they are ''real''.

Edited May 18, 2022 by SQAAD