How There is No Difference Between Real and Imaginary?

[SQAAD]

@zurew

20 minutes ago, zurew said:

The only problem with this is that this assumes an objective structure to your dream. Everything is constantly changing in your dream including yourself.

The minute you start wondering about the structure and about yourself that very act is affecting your dream.

Perceiving and creating happens simultaneously.

 

Whatever you call actual reality, is inside your consciousness. Just because you imagine that you can't change it, that does not mean, that you can't change it.

You can't change it. God is in control. And we don't have access to any of that.

Edited May 18, 2022 by SQAAD

[zurew]

5 minutes ago, SQAAD said:

You can't change it. God is in control. And we don't have access to any of that.

God isn't anything/anyone who is different from you. He is You. You are IT.

[SQAAD]

@zurew

7 hours ago, zurew said:

The only problem with this is that this assumes an objective structure to your dream. Everything is constantly changing in your dream including yourself.

The minute you start wondering about the structure and about yourself that very act is affecting your dream.

Perceiving and creating happens simultaneously.

 

Whatever you call actual reality, is inside your consciousness. Just because you imagine that you can't change it, that does not mean, that you can't change it.

No i don't assume anything in this situation. My point is that what is , simply is. You can call it objective or subjective, it doesn't matter . I think going further trying to analyze what is, creates all sorts of word games and confusion after a certain point.

I cannot change the structure of my reality. Only temporarily maybe if i take a strong substance. This imagination you ara are talking about, it is God's imagination and we don't have access to that. And i don't know if we will ever do. That is the paradox. That we cannot control Reality even if we are God essentially.

Whether it is a dream or not, it makes no difference to me. Its as real as it gets. It has no opposite. Calling it whatever is meaningless when it has no opposite. You can call it Objective , Subjective, Real ,Unreal, it makes no difference from my perspective.

Edited May 18, 2022 by SQAAD

[zurew]

1 hour ago, SQAAD said:

No i don't assume anything in this situation. My point is that what is , simply is. You can call it objective or subjective, it doesn't matter . I think going further trying to analyze what is, creates all sorts of word games and confusion after a certain point.

I cannot change the structure of my reality. Only temporarily maybe if i take a strong substance. This imagination you ara are talking about, it is God's imagination and we don't have access to that. And i don't know if we will ever do. That is the paradox. That we cannot control Reality even if we are God essentially.

Whether it is a dream or not, it makes no difference to me. Its as real as it gets. It has no opposite. Calling it whatever is meaningless when it has no opposite. You can call it Objective , Subjective, Real ,Unreal, it makes no difference from my perspective.

There is no difference structurally speaking between your definition of real and imaginary thats the point.

Using your ego as a standpoint you could experience your definition of dream or your thoughts different from your definition of reality, but thats doesn't change the fact that you are in your dream, and every part of you and your dream is made out of consciousness.

you can call this dangerous or you can label it any other way, but that won't change the fact, that the structure of you and the structure of your reality is made out of consciousness.

How you experience it, doesn't really matter in this case.

THe same way, when you go to sleep, the same goes down.  You are in your own dream, you are a dreamcharacter, everyone else is a dreamcharacter, every part of your dream is made out of consciousness. You can experience pain, sorrow, sadness or joy or ecstasy . But that doesn't just the fact that it is a dream.

 

What you are doing is making distinctions. Making distinctions is practical and good for survival, but what we are talking about is Truth. If you want to talk about survival its great, you can make as many distinctions as you want, because it will be beneficial for your survival. 

Edited May 18, 2022 by zurew

[DecemberFlower]

@SQAAD I think that people should stop saying that real and imaginary are no different from another and instead say that there is no separation between them cause they are made of the same "thing" consciousness itself

Cause there is an obvious difference between getting punched in the face and having an orgasm.. If there wasnt instead of searching for sex we would search to get punched in the face.. No sense watsoever

Even if u say ok for body its obviously very different things to experience but for consciousness it isnt cause it isnt affected only ego is still consciousness clearly experiences different stuff.. 

 

 

[Naturalist]

For Individual A, the truth is that the object is firmly in front of the BLUE square and it is false to claim that the object is in front of the RED square.  Concurrently, for Individual B, the truth is that the object is firmly in front of the RED square and it is false to claim that the object is in front of the BLUE square. 

The verdict is that all phenomena are dependent, i.e. it does not exist in an intrinsic way like this or that on their own sides, unrelated to the consciousness that perceives them.  That is to say, any conclusions made are merely two sides of the same coin.  In the final analysis, there are two sides to the truth: conventional truth and ultimate truth.  Before expressing one’s viewpoint, it is imperative to side with the truth, respectively. 

“Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact.  Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.”

Marcus Aurelius

 

 

Edited May 19, 2022 by Naturalist

[Leo Gura]

On 5/16/2022 at 10:11 PM, SQAAD said:

@Leo Gura

The difference exists though. It does not matter if you call it imaginary or not. It exists and thats the bottom line. I can stop imagining a lion or whatever stuff in my head. But good luck stop imagining actual reality.

There is a huge difference between a lion that i imagine in my head that can't hurt me and an actual lion that will eat me live.

That difference between actuality vs fantasy exists.

If you say so.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, DecemberFlower said:

Cause there is an obvious difference between getting punched in the face and having an orgasm.

No there isn't!

[Yog]

On 5/17/2022 at 6:11 AM, SQAAD said:

@Leo Gura

The difference exists though. It does not matter if you call it imaginary or not. It exists and thats the bottom line. I can stop imagining a lion or whatever stuff in my head. But good luck stop imagining actual reality.

You are saying this because anytime you engage in imagination, it gets online by only few %. If you tried hard for 10 mins, you would barely get it above 10%. Do not confuse this day-to-day imagination with full blown imagination.

if you go on and engage it to 100ish % than you will be fully immersed and be totally in it, just like you are now. This is what we call a lucid dream.

A thing you might notice while getting there is that at first, you were building the scene, you imagined the lion, the props, walls ect, details were fuzzy and blurry, you were thinking about your day to day activities and what not. But after a while the scene will start to become alive, continue building itself and take a life on its own,  you will also stop perceiving this content as images somewhere in your head-space and start seeing them right in-front of you, as you were using your eyes to see them.

So this imaginary lion, will kill you "there", just as it will "here".

[Jordan]

What people refer to with the word real is imaginary. All meaning is imaginary. All comparison is imaginary. The only thing that I am not sure is imaginary are the current sensations as they are without comparing them or creating meaning from them. That leaves over 99% of my and your experience as imagination.

[SQAAD]

@Leo Gura

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If you say so.

This would apply if we had control over ''physical'' Reality but we do not possess that power. 

[SQAAD]

@Leo Gura

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No there isn't!

Why are you denying those obvious differences ,I don't understand it. What is the logic behind this? You say because all differences are imaginary but i could do the following : I could say that all differences are real therefore anything i imagine is also real. Which is true but still there is a difference between fantasy and reality. They both exist but they are different. This is all a word game after a certain point.

It does not matter from my perspective how you label those differences because they exist. If there was no difference between anything then why do you keep taking good care of your body? Why do you insist on eating healthy food if there are no obvious differences??

Edited May 19, 2022 by SQAAD

[axiom]

@SQAAD The point is that at the absolute level, everything is indeed imaginary. At the level of absolute truth, there is no difference between fantasy and reality.

At the relative level, dream characters exist on the same imaginary plane as the dream itself. As such, dream characters experience apparent differences between "fantasy" and "reality", and behave accordingly.

There is nothing "wrong" with a dream character believing in such differences. This is in fact its most natural behaviour. In the dream - which is largely about survival - it needs the ability to distinguish to survive.

Edited May 19, 2022 by axiom

[The0Self]

Bombshell: Everyone who thinks they know something, has no idea what they’re talking about.

Edit: Taking a bit of a plunge giving the benefit of the doubt to people on a forum like this — assuming they actually do want to wake up and aren’t playing games. As delusional a belief as any other, of course.

Edited May 19, 2022 by The0Self

[axiom]

@The0Self All ideas are finite, and are thus an equal distance from infinity.

[SQAAD]

@axiom 

9 minutes ago, axiom said:

@SQAAD  At the level of absolute truth, there is no difference between fantasy and reality.

Why is that? My relative experience is the absolute truth. And there is a huge difference between fantasy and reality. Proof? I imagine hitting myself with a hammer. No problems whatsoever. I hit myself with an actual hammer. Huge problems afterwards. 

You say that there are no differences but you don't justify this position.

Edited May 19, 2022 by SQAAD

[axiom]

4 minutes ago, SQAAD said:

@axiom 

Why is that? My relative experience is the absolute truth. And there is a huge difference between fantasy and reality. Proof? I imagine hitting myself with a hammer. No problems whatsoever. I hit myself with an actual hammer. Huge problems afterwards. 

No experience is truth. When you are identified with the body, you experience apparent problems. In the scenario you describe (hitting yourself with a "real" hammer), pain usually happens regardless.

Edited May 19, 2022 by axiom

[zurew]

7 minutes ago, SQAAD said:

Why is that? My relative experience is the absolute truth. And there is a huge difference between fantasy and reality. Proof? I imagine hitting myself with a hammer. No problems whatsoever. I hit myself with an actual hammer. Huge problems afterwards. 

You say that there are no differences but you don't justify this position.

What you don't yet understand is that your dream is made out of consciousness and you are too. Thats why ultimately speaking there is no difference between the things you are talking about because the "bulding blocks" of you and your reality is consciousness.

Both "fantasy" and "reality" is made out of consciousness.

It doesn't matter if right now you have the ability to change the dream or not. Because its still inside your consciousness, and its still made out of consciousness.

Edited May 19, 2022 by zurew

[SQAAD]

@zurew

22 hours ago, zurew said:

What you don't yet understand is that your dream is made out of consciousness and you are too. Thats why ultimately speaking there is no difference between the things you are talking about because the "bulding blocks" of you and your reality is consciousness.

Both "fantasy" and "reality" is made out of consciousness.

It doesn't matter if right now you have the ability to change the dream or not. Because its still inside your consciousness, and its still made out of consciousness.

I know that already. But still denying the difference of fantasy and reality like Leo seems to do lately is dangerous and wrong. There is an obvious difference between an actual apple that will feed me and an imaginary one that will leave me starving. If there was no difference between things then you would be happy eating a piece of turd instead of a 'healthy' meal or whatever else you might be eating. 

Either you call Reality imaginary or not, it does not make a difference.  As i said before i could say that Reality is Real therefore anything i imagine is also real. Yes that is true but there are differences even if everything is made of the same stuff essentially. That is my point.

Leo has gone so far to even the deny the difference of eating a cake vs getting tortured in the past. Yet in his direct experience, he lives his life completely opposite to that statement (eating healthy food, taking 100s of supplements, etc). I can't understand after a point. His explanations are insufficient or non existent at times.

Edited May 20, 2022 by SQAAD

[nistake]

Trying to understand this by using language, logic and rationality is quite an uphill battle. No amount of intellectual answers from others are gonna satisfy you. Only direct experience. And by direct experience, I don't mean language, logic and rationality.