How There is No Difference Between Real and Imaginary?

[SQAAD]

Leo says that there is no difference between real and unreal, real and illusion. What does that mean though , i don't understand.

If i imagine a lion walking in my room right now, that is imaginary. It stops being after i stop imagining it. Also there is no possibility that this lion could ever hurt me. 

But my room for example, never goes away unless i leave from it. That is a huge difference right there between real and imaginary.

This distinction about real vs imaginary can go into dangerous territories because you can believe whatever fantasies, imaginations you like this way. Surely the substance of reality can be one thing but still there is a huge difference between actual things and pure fantasies/delusions. 

If it weren't such a difference we would all end up in insane asylyms.

 

Edited May 16, 2022 by SQAAD

[Arthogaan]

If everything is imaginary then distinction between imagined and real becomes meaningless, because imagination = reality and therefore imagined = real. 

[Vibroverse]

There is a difference of degrees of density between your room and that lion you are imagining. Both are imaginary, but one is denser than the other, like both steam and ice are H2O, but their densities, solidities, are different. 

Edited May 16, 2022 by Vibroverse

[Leo Gura]

23 minutes ago, SQAAD said:

But my room for example, never goes away unless i leave from it

That difference: it going away vs it not, is itself imaginary!

Your room is as imaginary as that lion, it's just a more persistent version of imagination.

If you close your eyes your room goes away.

[zurew]

34 minutes ago, SQAAD said:

But my room for example, never goes away unless i leave from it

If you are dreaming at night, and in your dream you are in your room, the same process is happening what you just described above.

The point is that there is no clear line you can point to between imaginary and not imaginary.

Everything is inside your concious experience or simply put (in your consciousness).

You are always interacting with your own consciousness.

Edited May 16, 2022 by zurew

[ZzzleepingBear]

Everything is your imagination... With various levels of consequences. If you pick up something from the ground that looks brown and imagine that it's a fince piece of chocolate. It may be true or not, until your senses tells you otherwise. That could potentially be quite a wake up call..

[The0Self]

Thinking about them can only get you so far in answering existential questions. You have to actually wake up for it to be anything other than mere concept or (if you're lucky) intuition subject to doubt. Practices and passionate inquiry.

What is mme who?u?

 

 

Just for example:

 

1. See what the present perception says.

2. Then see it as inner phenomena rather than a solid external reality or story, and dis-identify from it by seeing it as an object, putting distance between you and it.

3. Then close the distance by, rather than going back to number 1 (seeing what it says), see what it's made of. And see/feel/intuit that you, aware only of your self, are a singularity that includes the very movement that seemed to form that perception.

Or any similar serious (and eventually, necessarily fearless) inquiry. The point is just to stay in unbound non-conceptual consciousness, and not lose contact with it, even in the midst of perceptions appearing and disappearing, not allowing them to say anything to you. With a very one-pointed active flow of refusal to activate/move/contract/flex the "identity-formation muscle." Genuine insights and awakening arise out of this sort of space.

Just one way to go about it, but the actual process of insight has a distinct quality that can only be learned by curiously going about inquiring with deep yearning for truth, or freedom from the false (perceptual filters).

Edited May 17, 2022 by The0Self

[SQAAD]

@Arthogaan

9 hours ago, Arthogaan said:

If everything is imaginary then distinction between imagined and real becomes meaningless, because imagination = reality and therefore imagined = real. 

Nope , this distinction does not become meaningless.  It is the distinction between Reality/Actuality and Fantasy. It is one thing to have a real apple to eat and it is another thing to be eating an imaginary apple in your head.

[SQAAD]

@Leo Gura

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That difference: it going away vs it not, is itself imaginary!

Your room is as imaginary as that lion, it's just a more persistent version of imagination.

If you close your eyes your room goes away.

The difference exists though. It does not matter if you call it imaginary or not. It exists and thats the bottom line. I can stop imagining a lion or whatever stuff in my head. But good luck stop imagining actual reality.

There is a huge difference between a lion that i imagine in my head that can't hurt me and an actual lion that will eat me live.

That difference between actuality vs fantasy exists. If you call it an imaginary difference, it is the same as calling it as real difference.

Blurring this distinction and discarding this difference goes into super dangerous territories.

Edited May 17, 2022 by SQAAD

[Vincent S]

@SQAAD Believing thoroughly in the dream you created:

1 hour ago, SQAAD said:

The difference exists though. It does not matter if you call it imaginary or not. It exists and thats the bottom line. I can stop imagining a lion or whatever stuff in my head. But good luck stop imagining actual reality.

There is a huge difference between a lion that i imagine in my head that can't hurt me and an actual lion that will eat me live.

That difference between actuality vs fantasy exists. If you call it an imaginary difference, it is the same as calling it as real difference.

Blurring this distinction and discarding this difference goes into super dangerous territories.

1 hour ago, SQAAD said:

Nope , this distinction does not become meaningless.  It is the distinction between Reality/Actuality and Fantasy. It is one thing to have a real apple to eat and it is another thing to be eating an imaginary apple in your head.

Versus accepting the hints you are giving yourself to help "free" your mind from where it feels stuck:

6 hours ago, The0Self said:

Thinking about them can only get you so far in answering existential questions. You have to actually wake up for it to be anything other than mere concept or (if you're lucky) intuition subject to doubt. Practices and passionate inquiry.

What is mme who?u?

Just for example:

1. See what the present perception says.

2. Then see it as inner phenomena rather than a solid external reality or story, and dis-identify from it by seeing it as an object, putting distance between you and it.

3. Then close the distance by, rather than going back to number 1 (seeing what it says), see what it's made of. And see/feel/intuit that you, aware only of your self, are a singularity that includes the very movement that seemed to form that perception.

Or any similar serious (and eventually, necessarily fearless) inquiry. The point is just to stay in unbound non-conceptual consciousness, and not lose contact with it, even in the midst of perceptions appearing and disappearing, not allowing them to say anything to you. With a very one-pointed active flow of refusal to activate/move/contract/flex the "identity-formation muscle." Genuine insights and awakening arise out of this sort of space.

Just one way to go about it, but the actual process of insight has a distinct quality that can only be learned by curiously going about inquiring with deep yearning for truth, or freedom from the false (perceptual filters).

 

[amanen]

2 hours ago, SQAAD said:

@Leo Gura

The difference exists though. It does not matter if you call it imaginary or not. It exists and thats the bottom line. I can stop imagining a lion or whatever stuff in my head. But good luck stop imagining actual reality.

There is a huge difference between a lion that i imagine in my head that can't hurt me and an actual lion that will eat me live.

That difference between actuality vs fantasy exists. If you call it an imaginary difference, it is the same as calling it as real difference.

Blurring this distinction and discarding this difference goes into super dangerous territories.

You can stop imagining reality as it is.

You are god, nothing is stopping you.

You aren't conscious that it is just imaginary, thus you think your imagination is real.

All differences are imaginary, you just aren't conscious enough to know that.

If you were conscious enough you could very well imagine a lion that is as "real" as your room.

[Vibroverse]

4 hours ago, SQAAD said:

@Leo Gura

The difference exists though. It does not matter if you call it imaginary or not. It exists and thats the bottom line. I can stop imagining a lion or whatever stuff in my head. But good luck stop imagining actual reality.

There is a huge difference between a lion that i imagine in my head that can't hurt me and an actual lion that will eat me live.

That difference between actuality vs fantasy exists. If you call it an imaginary difference, it is the same as calling it as real difference.

Blurring this distinction and discarding this difference goes into super dangerous territories.

Momentum. 

[ZenSwift]

Definetly one of the things on my list to contemplate. 

[Naturalist]

By convention, things can exist within the confines of the mind as fallacy or reality.  All phenomena are dependent, i.e. it does not exist in an intrinsic way like this or that on their own sides, unrelated to the consciousness that perceives them.  This means that what exists is defined as what can be known through the mind, if not it does not exist.  In other words, the predominance of the mind evokes duality or multiple circumstances.  That is, the mind is the principal source of all perceptions, conceptions, illusions, imaginings, etc.  For instance, life and death are human constructs, i.e. they are merely different notions of mental consciousness.

[Mafortu]

it's a spektrum

A thought of a lion, a written description of a lion, a picture of a lion, a plushie of a lion, a computer animated lion, an interactive videogame lion, a lion in a zoo, you being the lion... etc

Its all inside the dream we are in

[Alex_R]

Because its all inside your consiousness, its all inside your mind, if you can imagine then it is real.
 

Quote

 

If it will be possible to have a dream that last 80 years that will become your new reality, that will be your life. 

 

 

 

-Alan Watts

[SQAAD]

@Vincent S

On 17/5/2022 at 9:39 AM, Vincent S said:

@SQAAD Believing thoroughly in the dream you created:

Versus accepting the hints you are giving yourself to help "free" your mind from where it feels stuck:

 

It's not about believing or not believing. Reality is what is. It does not matter a bit if i believe that my chair is real or not. I see it. I feel it. End of story. Thats the bottom line. Going further that this is pointless. What is, IS. And it does not make a difference what you believe or don't believe about the ISNESS of a situation.

Edited May 18, 2022 by SQAAD

[SQAAD]

@Alex_R

3 hours ago, Alex_R said:

Because its all inside your consiousness, its all inside your mind, if you can imagine then it is real.
 

-Alan Watts

It does not matter whether you imagine or not. What is, simply is. Its not mental game your ego can control. 

[SQAAD]

@amanen

On 17/5/2022 at 11:02 AM, amanen said:

You can stop imagining reality as it is.

You are god, nothing is stopping you.

You aren't conscious that it is just imaginary, thus you think your imagination is real.

All differences are imaginary, you just aren't conscious enough to know that.

If you were conscious enough you could very well imagine a lion that is as "real" as your room.

God can do as 'he' likes. But your ego has no control over reality. 

[zurew]

9 minutes ago, SQAAD said:

It's not about believing or not believing. Reality is what is. It does not matter a bit if i believe that my chair is real or not. I see it. I feel it. End of story. Thats the bottom line. Going further that this is pointless. What is, IS.

The only problem with this is that this assumes an objective structure to your dream. Everything is constantly changing in your dream including yourself.

The minute you start wondering about the structure and about yourself that very act is affecting your dream.

Perceiving and creating happens simultaneously.

 

Whatever you call actual reality, is inside your consciousness. Just because you imagine that you can't change it, that does not mean, that you can't change it.

Edited May 18, 2022 by zurew