Peter Ralston NEW statement about psychedelics

[Alex M]

23 hours ago, Vincent S said:

I wonder why he says: "You need to come here and do some real work" as if that real work is not possible everywhere.
If I'm not wrong, or projecting here: He has something to sell, and students to learn. He cant and wont advocate for psychedelics. If he did, he wouldn't have any students to run his business or teach his teachings to. (Just a wild guess )

Exactly what I read into that statement. 

[Petals]

I don't see much of a problem. All that Ralston says (I think) is that states are not Consciousness which is fair enough I think. Ralston thinks that psychedelics produce nothing but states. Imagine the sky is very cloudy and you want to see the sun. Ralston says 'Let's wait down here till we see the sun'. Leo says 'I will take a plane and go beyond the clouds. Then I will see the sun.' The sun is always shining but you don't always see it. Ralston thinks it's illegitimate to take a plane which doesn't make sense. After all it's the same sun. It's still the same sun when you descend below the clouds again.

[Batman]

1 minute ago, Alex M said:

Exactly what I read into that statement. 

It is possible to you are projecting. You should consider the possibility that he holds his work in high regard, and that he facilitates the best possibility for consciousness work. You can't really know whether his interest is money or making the world more conscious. On the contrary, I highly doubt that his motive is financial. If that was the case, why the fuck would he teach enlightenment? That is the most esoteric thing to do in life. 

[Breakingthewall]

4 minutes ago, Petals said:

I don't see much of a problem. All that Ralston says (I think) is that states are not Consciousness which is fair enough I think. Ralston thinks that psychedelics produce nothing but states. Imagine the sky is very cloudy and you want to see the sun. Ralston says 'Let's wait down here till we see the sun'. Leo says 'I will take a plane and go beyond the clouds. Then I will see the sun.' The sun is always shining but you don't always see it. Ralston thinks it's illegitimate to take a plane which doesn't make sense. After all it's the same sun. It's still the same sun when you descend below the clouds again.

good metaphor, but ralston should know that the vast majority of people live in a place where it is always cloudy. tell them not to take the plane, they better do his waiting method, which will almost certainly only lead them to see some faint lightning, it seems even evil

[softlyblossoming]

Guys, how can there be any sort of consciousness of the absolute? How can we become conscious of *actual* nothing? 

Nothing can't be conscious because when it is it's something. Like in the neti-neti method: not this trip, not this insight, etc, etc. Am I on the right track?

[Shambhu]

Consciousness does not have levels, and there cannot be more or less Consciousness.  This type of thinking is the result of confusing the mind with Consciousness.  The mind has states, and the mind can expand or contract.  The mind is just another appearance to Consciousness.  Consciousness is always absolute, unchanging, and in need of nothing.

The work of spirituality takes place in the mind.  That is where the problem lies, and that is where the solution is found as well.  There are many established means of doing this, so shop around, do some sampling, and decide for your yourself what is best for you.  As the saying goes, you need a thorn to remove another thorn, then you throw both away.

@Leo Gura Have you ever noticed that statements could just as easily be used by others against you?

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But I'm not gonna argue with you guys about it. Some day you will realize I was right.

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You will never reach thru manual practices psychedelics the levels of consciousness I have reached. No amount of meditation  psychedelics will get you there.

To think you have or will is delusional and misleading to students.

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The notion that you are maximally conscious is laughable. That is the astonishing delusion.

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Play whatever word games you want, but you are not maximally conscious

Perhaps your methodology works for yourself and some others, but quite honestly, and I only say this to help, you can come off as arrogant and delusional.   

[bliss54]

Its not just ralston, thats a pretty common view among enlightened people

They have a lot of value they can show you whats possible, but its not the only thing you need to do lots of other practices too

Personally I had many deep trips but then I come back and I still suffer so much, so whats the point. I will stop doing it so frequently

Edited May 16, 2022 by bliss54

[Carl-Richard]

There is a distinction between organic and synthetic states, and you can't translate between them. It's analogous to how giving a pre-pubescent child steroids does not make them into an adult. The very basis on which the state is produced is different. Likewise, there are differences between different types of organic and synthetic states. Persistent non-symbolic awareness (PNSA) might be radically different from a temporary glimpse, just like 5-MeO-DMT might be radically different from LSD.

These are all incommensurable realms of existence, but with regards to measurements of spiritual maturity, my heart lies with PNSA. There is something about having a central aspect of your most organic state be a reflection of truth that resonates with me more than the movement between temporary peaks. That said, people who claim to have PNSA, still speak of a continual process of refinement (call it different aspects of karma) that "tests" their commitment to truth so to speak. So to claim that there are no levels to these things is a bit inaccurate, but certainly in the organic realm, these levels are largely sub-ordinate to the greater shift between pre- and post-PNSA.

[Arthogaan]

Playing a VR game. Realizing that it is just a game and the projection and being completely free of suffering of the avatar is one thing.

But achieving state of consciousness where you see throught all possible vr headsets at once, see and understand all the inteligence running it and all the mechanics is another thing and meditation alone will not get you there.

 

[The0Self]

20 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This is so wrong it's stunning.

For real  like what the fuck... Interestingly I never really followed Peter Ralston's stuff anyway. Bernadette Roberts and Rob Burbea were far more clear imo, and now there's a new guy Angelo Dilullo MD who guides even more clearly and effectively than probably anyone I've heard of.

Maybe Ralston meant abiding higher consciousness -- but even the idea of psychedelics not facilitating that...is dubious in my experience... it really is . I don't know how it is for others, but for me? Holy crap psychedelics were like one of (if not the most) important things. Same seemed to be the case for Michael Taft -- but interestingly he doesn't give any guidance whatsoever on psychedelics, so he also seems to think meditation is where it's at... even though his awakening literally happened on a huge dose of LSD (pretty common theme, huh? )... though he (Taft) did attribute the awakening to situations being perfect that day -- he had just moved to Japan, he was with a like-minded friend, he'd had a perfect day or something, and he ended up deciding he could die right there, and so he did, and never came back... But of course, it is still the case that it happened on LSD... for fuck's sake... 

(On the other hand, while Michael Taft speaks very highly of what >>700 psychedelic trips did for him, he also says that he noticed negative effects in many others who used it, so he probably sees it as very clearly not a one size fits all approach -- but then again, probably just about nothing is foolproof.)

Although I will relent that there is a different axis of development -- doubtless abidance in truth, or whatever you want to call abiding absence of separation and subject-object filters -- which depends far more on immediate desire for alignment with absolute truth here and now, than one's ability to let go into psychedelic ego death. While essentially nothing is more powerful than psychedelics... also there is nothing is more powerful than self inquiry done right, with steady unshakable passion to wake up to absolute truth come heaven or hell, life or death, right then and there.

But even so, Ralston just completely does not resonate here on this one.

Edited May 16, 2022 by The0Self

[Aimblack]

28 minutes ago, Shambhu said:

Consciousness does not have levels, and there cannot be more or less Consciousness.  This type of thinking is the result of confusing the mind with Consciousness.  The mind has states, and the mind can expand or contract.  The mind is just another appearance to Consciousness.  Consciousness is always absolute, unchanging, and in need of nothing.

The work of spirituality takes place in the mind.  That is where the problem lies, and that is where the solution is found as well.  There are many established means of doing this, so shop around, do some sampling, and decide for your yourself what is best for you.  As the saying goes, you need a thorn to remove another thorn, then you throw both away.

@Leo Gura Have you ever noticed that statements could just as easily be used by others against you?

Perhaps your methodology works for yourself and some others, but quite honestly, and I only say this to help, you can come off as arrogant and delusional.   

I think that is just a matter of perspective. The nature of this forum and the way Leo interacts on here can make it seem like Leo sees himself as 'one of the guys' but it makes sense if you see that Leo considers himself a teacher and people on here his students. From that point of view the way he communicates is not that different from how for instance peter communicates.

[stefm5]

3 minutes ago, The0Self said:

For real  like what the fuck... Interestingly I never really followed Peter Ralston's stuff anyway. Bernadette Roberts and Rob Burbea were far more clear imo, and now there's a new guy Angelo Dilullo MD who guides even more clearly and effectively than probably anyone I've heard of.

Maybe Ralston meant abiding higher consciousness -- but even the idea of psychedelics not facilitating that...is dubious in my experience... it really is . I don't know how it is for others, but for me? Holy crap psychedelics were like one of (if not the most) important things. Same seemed to be the case for Michael Taft -- but interestingly he doesn't give any guidance whatsoever on psychedelics, so he also seems to think meditation is where it's at... even though his awakening literally happened on a huge dose of LSD (pretty common theme, huh? ).

Although I will relent that there is a different axis of development -- doubtless abidance in truth, or whatever you want to call abiding absence of separation and subject-object filters -- which depends far more on immediate desire for alignment with absolute truth here and now, than one's ability to let go into psychedelic ego death... But even so, Ralston just completely doesn't resonate here on this one.

i really like Angelo Dilullo

[Salvijus]

2 hours ago, softlyblossoming said:

Guys, how can there be any sort of consciousness of the absolute? How can we become conscious of *actual* nothing? 

Nothing can't be conscious because when it is it's something. Like in the neti-neti method: not this trip, not this insight, etc, etc. Am I on the right track?

You are absolutely certain that u exist, right? Nobody ever doubts his existence, it's impossible. Even to say i don't exist u need to exist first to say that. So u exist. Absolutely so. 

Now the question becomes 'i exists but as what?' Then neti neti starts. Everything is impermenant, but i remain and observe existence coming and going. Then by observing all phenomena to its subtlest realms u realize what u are can't be found or grasped. It is nothing or not-anything-tangiable. No-self in buddhist's terms. That's the realization of the absolute. Realization of nothingness. And it has no levels or it wouldn't be absolute. There are degrees of insight into the absolute tho.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

Leo's debate arguments these days:

1) you're wrong

2) you're not as concious as I am

3) you don't even exist, bruh.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Salvijus

[Vincent S]

5 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Leo's debate arguments these days:

1) you're wrong

2) you're not as concious as I am

3) you don't even exist, bruh.

How can this Leo ever trigger you to question your own paradigm and to awaken deeper in to yourself?
This is precisely how we can grow out of our states. To create this other to trigger our own sense of self-understanding,
and "knowing" of ourselves.

It's hilarious if you get it
Leo being "arrogant" is an invitation/challenge to question your state and to go figure it out for yourself, what he is trying to convey.
Leo mastermind

[Raptorsin7]

@Vincent S You're a fool. When you develop some genuine insight and wisdom then come back and post.

You're welcome

[Vincent S]

Just now, Raptorsin7 said:

@Vincent S You're a fool. When you develop some genuine insight and wisdom then come back and post.

You're welcome

Watch out for your projections

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, Vincent S said:

Watch out for your projections

 

7 minutes ago, Vincent S said:

How can this Leo ever trigger you to question your own paradigm and to awaken deeper in to yourself?

You're welcome (;

[Vincent S]

Good one

[Salvijus]

12 minutes ago, Vincent S said:

How can this Leo ever trigger you to question your own paradigm and to awaken deeper in to yourself?
This is precisely how we can grow out of our states. To create this other to trigger our own sense of self-understanding,
and "knowing" of ourselves.

It's hilarious if you get it
Leo being "arrogant" is an invitation/challenge to question your state and to go figure it out for yourself, what he is trying to convey.
Leo mastermind

Yeah, trying not to get triggered while reading leo's comments is a huge challenge for me ? i think im getting better at it slowly. Lost it a little bit towards my last post... sorry Leo, you're a great guy