Peter Ralston NEW statement about psychedelics

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

He’s 100% on the money. 

False

[UnbornTao]

@kieranperez @Leo Gura great dialogue

 

 

Edited May 21, 2022 by UnbornTao

[Spiral Wizard]

On 20/05/2022 at 2:59 AM, GreenWoods said:

The levels of enlightenment that people have reached are vastly different.

And here I'm just talking about baseline consciousness.

Just a quick assessment on the fly based on my intuition and speculation:

• The difference (baseline consciousness) between the average person and Mooji is smaller than the difference between Mooji and Sadhguru
• And that difference is again smaller than the difference between Sadhguru and Ramana Maharshi
• And that difference is again smaller than the difference between Ramana Maharshi and Buddha 
• And that difference is again smaller than the difference between Buddha and Babaji (here I'm the least sure. Maybe Buddha had Babaji's level too)

DAMN, holy cow, this makes me excited about our potential  

15 hours ago, Consilience said:

The first part is fair, they’re are those who are very gifted without effort or practice. But to setup this dichotomy - you’re either naturally gifted or meditation is useless - is asinine. 
 

Yes the dog example points to the value of this human life, just how precious it is to be born as a human. We, unlike a dog, have the capacity for enlightenment. Moreover, the brain is a uniquely malleable organ compared to the rest of the body. To use genetics as an argument for some kind of inherent, static limitation of the mind is not only incredibly close-minded, it’s implicitly materialistic. 
 

The mind’s capacity for transformation is vast, grandiose. Psychedelics prove this. And for those unafraid of industrial grade practice, who see the futility and insanity of how most of us live, even those who think they’re into serious spirituality, those beings see this capacity for transformation through manual practice and their resulting direct experience. 

Mic DROP ?

[Inliytened1]

The biggest thing with enlightenment is awakening cannot be forced.  It happens precisely when it means to - and the tools that may or may not be used are irrelevant.   Meditation and psychedelics are merely triggers within the dream designed to facilitate awakening.  But you don't wake up from a dream until its time.  When it's time, something wakes you up.  In a night time dream that might be someone shaking you awake - or even pouring cold water on you.   In the waking dream it could be meditation or psychedelics.   But the difference between the waking and night time dream is it is much more difficult to awaken, and more intricate.  It cannot be forced.  When you are ready, all that may be needed is a slight push.    So although I awoke without psychedelics I concur fully with Leo's take on serotonin levels and that chemicals are always in play.  Peter doesn't know what he's talking about here...he's being close minded.   He is wrong about them not being a valid trigger but he's right about if you aren't ready the trigger will do nothing.   The bottle must be full first to drink - then you just need to open the cap.

[puporing]

3 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

But the difference between the waking and night time dream is it is much more difficult to awaken, and more intricate.  It cannot be forced.  When you are ready, all that may be needed is a slight push.

This has been my observation as well. I've spoken to quite a few people now who have done a lot of psychedelics and are still dealing with personal matters/mental health stuff, "seeing spirits" and telling more stories to themselves from the trips. So yes it's generally not going to happen if one is not ready for it. And I agree that it cannot be forced upon someone who's not ready. 

Edited May 22, 2022 by puporing

[Jodistrict]

13 hours ago, puporing said:

This has been my observation as well. I've spoken to quite a few people now who have done a lot of psychedelics and are still dealing with personal matters/mental health stuff, "seeing spirits" and telling more stories to themselves from the trips. So yes it's generally not going to happen if one is not ready for it. And I agree that it cannot be forced upon someone who's not ready. 

I recently spoke to a respected Ayahausca shaman in Mexico and he told me that he no longer takes Ayahausca because he doesn´t need it.   I  have spoken to several people that have told me the same thing.  It is a medicine.  That means once you are cured you stop taking the medicine.

[UnbornTao]

@puporing @Jodistrict I think now we may be conflating healing with awakening.

[Jodistrict]

Just now, UnbornTao said:

@puporing @Jodistrict I think now we may be conflating healing with awakening.

They aren't unrelated.  

 

[zurew]

2 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

They aren't unrelated.  

But the goal matters, why you want to use a certain substance. When the shaman says that "he doesn't need it anymore" so he won't take it that has a certain context to it.

You can use psychedelics to just fuck around you can use them for healing purposes, you can use them for spiritual purposes etc.

Edited May 22, 2022 by zurew

[Breakingthewall]

7 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

is a medicine.  That means once you are cured you stop taking the medicine.

On 17/5/2022 at 16:44, Consilience said:

 

On 16/5/2022 at 22:59, Consilience said:

 

 

It depends on what your goals are. medicine implies disease to cure, but there comes a point where you are clean of trauma (psychedelics help enormously in this) and what you seek is to dissolve the illusion of the ego, transcendence. true enlightenment. In my case it is for pure selfishness. I have realized that enlightenment is the real happiness. anything else is a substitute without life or grace. Only God is the goal. It sounds very selfish, and it really is.

[Gesundheit2]

49 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

I recently spoke to a respected Ayahausca shaman in Mexico and he told me that he no longer takes Ayahausca because he doesn´t need it.   I  have spoken to several people that have told me the same thing.  It is a medicine.  That means once you are cured you stop taking the medicine.

Agreed.

Personally, I don't consume any non-essential chemicals, not even caffeine. And I'm super healthy and perfectly at peace, and my baseline consciousness levels are very high.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Gesundheit2

[puporing]

@UnbornTao No, I am saying people use psychedelic substances for different reasons and generally have not been for the purpose of awakening/understanding the nature of reality. They generally don't even know that's a possibility for them. 

[kieranperez]

On 5/21/2022 at 5:03 AM, UnbornTao said:

@kieranperez @Leo Gura great dialogue

 

 

I’ve made the case on this point enough times. Not interested in debating. 

[UnbornTao]

@Jodistrict @zurew yes, but they're different goals. 

Pursuing awakening can have physiological and emotional benefits, but these are side effects. 

And pursuing healing won't make you enlightened, although it can help you be more loving, etc. which could be considered as spiritually elevating. Weird phrase

[Hello from Russia]

On 5/20/2022 at 9:44 PM, Leo Gura said:

It's also obvious that if you had the genetics of a dog you would never become God-realized. 

Come on, there must be enlighened dogs

[Osaid]

1 minute ago, Hello from Russia said:

Come on, there must be enlighened dogs

Maybe all those woofs are Zen koans in dog-speak

[Osaid]

18 minutes ago, Benton said:

haha 

"OMG no way...the entire universe was the "good boy" this entire time??"

[ZzzleepingBear]

6 minutes ago, Osaid said:

"OMG no way...the entire universe was the "good boy" this entire time??"

Well, dog spelled backwards is god;-)

[Hello from Russia]

54 minutes ago, ZzzleepingBear said:

Well, dog spelled backwards is god;-)

This!!! 

[Jodistrict]

I went to an outdoor Ayahuasca ceremony, where in the morning the dogs on the ranch would come around and lick the ayahuasca cups on the ground.  They seemed to like it, which is strange because for humans it tastes horrible.  

Edited May 22, 2022 by Jodistrict