Peter Ralston NEW statement about psychedelics

[Brenzo2]

14 hours ago, Yali said:

It's non-sense to assume dream coffee would affect my biology in the same way as real-life coffee. One is a mental image, the other isn't. @Leo Gura

The placebo effect is nonsense also. But plausible nonsense nonetheless.

[RickyFitts]

3 hours ago, Batman said:

The practice of meditation does not lead to enlightenment. It may help with focus, concertation, or calming the mind and creating other states of mind, but it has nothing to do with enlightenment. 

Are you familiar with the story of the Buddha's enlightenment under the bodhi tree? Because he was practising simple breath meditation, nothing more fancy than that apparently

[GreenWoods]

57 minutes ago, Consilience said:

much more to do with one’s faith, openness and diligence in the practice. 

I think these are relatively insignificant factors.

How many people of those who fullfil all these criteria and spend as much time as Mooji or Sadhguru or Dalai Lama, or Mother Meera attain the same level as these?

53 minutes ago, Consilience said:

. Ive never met a genuine sage who hasnt worked their ass off. 

Most masters work their ass off too. But most of their progress is thanks to genentics and not hard work.

I think 99% of people could meditate for 1 million hours and would still be far from Jesus, Buddha, Krishna or Babaji.

[Consilience]

4 minutes ago, GreenWoods said:

Most masters work their ass off too. But most of their progress is thanks to genentics and not hard work.

I think 99% of people could meditate for 1 million hours and would still be far from Jesus, Buddha, Krishna or Babaji.

As someone who is currently living with a group of contemplatives, semi-monastics, this is simply not what I observe. 
 

This genetics idea is a belief you’ve adopted from Leo and now parrot but it is not grounded in your direct experience. 
 

6 minutes ago, GreenWoods said:

I think these are relatively insignificant factors.

How many people of those who fullfil all these criteria and spend as much time as Mooji or Sadhguru or Dalai Lama, or Mother Meera attain the same level as these?

Well perhaps that’s why you haven't had profound, mind blowing, life altering results from meditation. I haven't met a single person who’s actually and completely thrown themselves into meditation who hasn’t had profound results. 

I would say many. The people who spend as much time as Mooji, Sadhguru, or the Dalai Lama are typically so rare and so off the radar of the mainstream, you’d never encounter them. But they do exist. Most of these kinds of people aren’t leading communities or engaging in the public in the same way. 

[GreenWoods]

@Consilience maybe you are right. 

Or maybe you don't appreciate the VAST differences in advanced levels of enlightenment between different people. 

Sure, attaining no self and recognizing that you are consciousness and attaining oneness is relatively easy, most people can do that with diligent effort. 

If we look through the lense of my model of dimensions of consciousness, then enlightenment has 4 main dimensions: Illumination, void, intensity and magnitude. And each dimension goes infinitely high.

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Consilience said:

This genetics idea is a belief you’ve adopted from Leo and now parrot but it is not grounded in your direct experience. 

Genetics obviouy play a huge role. I have met people who claim to have been born awake and/or with radically expanded states of consciousness, as though they are tripping on DMT naturally all the time. Such people are not even that rare. All psychics, shaman, and most mystics are like this. They do not meditate to get their powers. They are born with them.

It's also obvious that if you had the genetics of a dog you would never become God-realized. Without the right genetics and brain chemistry, you are spiritually fucked.

[Carl-Richard]

@Leo Gura

Then you also have the tough nuts, like Rupert Spira or Gary Weber, who spent decades meditating before stabilizing in non-duality.

[Batman]

3 hours ago, RickyFitts said:

Are you familiar with the story of the Buddha's enlightenment under the bodhi tree? Because he was practising simple breath meditation, nothing more fancy than that apparently

Nope, I am familiar with the story that he set out to find why there is suffering and what is ultimately true about life. Anyhow, this are just stories based on hearsay, so no one really knows the accuracy of them. I couldn't care less about them. Enlightenment can probably happen in any situation, and maybe if you frustrate your self enough by sitting possessively cross legged and killing them knees, there will be an awakening. The fact is, that people meditate for decades and do not awake. There are even people who forsake their life, shave their head and go sit in a monastery on a mountain for years without awakening. They only get the piece of mind for not being in a society and live as some specified self.

 

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

@Leo Gura

Then you also have the tough nuts, like Rupert Spira or Gary Weber, who spent decades meditating before stabilizing in non-duality.

True. Effort does make a difference. Although the question remains how awake they really are.

And there is always the question of, how predisposed were they for that way to work?

- - - - -

FYI, I had an enlightenment from 8 days of vipassana meditation, and it wore off. So it is possible. But none of that is Infinite Consciousness or God-realization.

[Brivido]

5 hours ago, Twentyfirst said:

Maybe he just couldn't function at the beginning and eventually acclimatized to a high level of consciousness in daily life

That's right. In one book of his written discourses he says that after a while the extremely powerful bliss disappeared. I suppose that when he was blissing out at the foot of the mountain, he was in a state similar to a deep awakening of 5-meo-malt, where all distinctions are collapsing and you are close to formless infinity. Basically, God was making Love with him, that's where the bliss came from.

Someone in a state like that can't function in the world, and whoever says otherwise hasn't experienced the level of awakening that I am talking about. So, after this bliss state, his level of consciousness must have stabilized to a level of non-duality in which he was able to live normally, walk around, and answer questions to students until his death.

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

FYI, I had an enlightenment from 8 days of vipassana meditation, and it wore off. So it is possible. But none of that is Infinite Consciousness or God-realization.

I had an enlightenment my 3rd ever meditation session 

[zurew]

3 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I had an enlightenment my 3rd ever meditation session 

Showing off the good genetics 

Edited May 20, 2022 by zurew

[Consilience]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Genetics obviouy play a huge role. I have met people who claim to have been born awake and/or with radically expanded states of consciousness, as though they are tripping on DMT naturally all the time. Such people are not even that rare. All psychics, shaman, and most mystics are like this. They do not meditate to get their powers. They are born with them.

It's also obvious that if you had the genetics of a dog you would never become God-realized. Without the right genetics and brain chemistry, you are spiritually fucked.

The first part is fair, they’re are those who are very gifted without effort or practice. But to setup this dichotomy - you’re either naturally gifted or meditation is useless - is asinine. 
 

Yes the dog example points to the value of this human life, just how precious it is to be born as a human. We, unlike a dog, have the capacity for enlightenment. Moreover, the brain is a uniquely malleable organ compared to the rest of the body. To use genetics as an argument for some kind of inherent, static limitation of the mind is not only incredibly close-minded, it’s implicitly materialistic. 
 

The mind’s capacity for transformation is vast, grandiose. Psychedelics prove this. And for those unafraid of industrial grade practice, who see the futility and insanity of how most of us live, even those who think they’re into serious spirituality, those beings see this capacity for transformation through manual practice and their resulting direct experience. 

[Danioover9000]

@Carl-Richard

13 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I had an enlightenment my 3rd ever meditation session 

   That's great! Had my enlightenment in a five day intensive. Didn't last long though.

[ardacigin]

7 minutes ago, Consilience said:

The first part is fair, they’re are those who are very gifted without effort or practice. But to setup this dichotomy - you’re either naturally gifted or meditation is useless - is asinine. 
 

Yes the dog example points to the value of this human life, just how precious it is to be born as a human. We, unlike a dog, have the capacity for enlightenment. Moreover, the brain is a uniquely malleable organ compared to the rest of the body. To use genetics as an argument for some kind of inherent, static limitation of the mind is not only incredibly close-minded, it’s implicitly materialistic. 
 

The mind’s capacity for transformation is vast, grandiose. Psychedelics prove this. And for those unafraid of industrial grade practice, who see the futility and insanity of how most of us live, even those who think they’re into serious spirituality, those beings see this capacity for transformation through manual practice and their resulting direct experience. 

Well, this was such a great response that I have nothing to add :)) 

In Leo's defense, on very rare occasions, human brain has certain limitations and depending on the individual personality type, this entire spirituality journey can manifest as torture expanding to many years of someone's life. Along with wrong intentions and destructive habits, the downward spiral can take a good while to change its momentum to positive growth.

Because of this, I understand people's initial love and loyalty to psychedelic substances. So much wisdom splurged in your face with little to no manual training.

However, as most of people here are being aware of, it is not a long term solution. We only have finite time here.

Constantly sliding back and never deeply integrating a spiritual insight will only result in a marginally better life than your average Joe. Actually embodying an insight permanently is SIGNIFICANTLY and RADICALLY more profound than any insight you temporarily glimpse with any psychedelic.

But of course, doing both is very powerful. So, I don't try to demean the value of psychedelic here.

[ardacigin]

19 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Carl-Richard

   That's great! Had my enlightenment in a five day intensive. Didn't last long though.

If it didn't last, then it was a glimpse. An insight experience. Not enlightenment.

Edited May 20, 2022 by ardacigin

[Carl-Richard]

44 minutes ago, zurew said:

Showing off the good genetics 

Leo started it 

 

21 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Carl-Richard

   That's great! Had my enlightenment in a five day intensive. Didn't last long though.

Yeah, mine lasted about a microsecond before I jumped up in fear. It changed me forever though.

[Carl-Richard]

8 minutes ago, ardacigin said:

If it didn't last, then it was a glimpse. An insight experience. Not enlightenment.

I'm sure we're all taking about a transient awakening with a short duration. Leo just called it enlightenment for some reason.

[Leo Gura]

54 minutes ago, Consilience said:

The first part is fair, they’re are those who are very gifted without effort or practice. But to setup this dichotomy - you’re either naturally gifted or meditation is useless - is asinine. 

That strawman is not something I subscribe to, obviously.

Quote

Moreover, the brain is a uniquely malleable organ compared to the rest of the body. To use genetics as an argument for some kind of inherent, static limitation of the mind is not only incredibly close-minded, it’s implicitly materialistic. 

Your brain is a lot less malleable than it seems.

Quote

The mind’s capacity for transformation is vast, grandiose. Psychedelics prove this.

Psychedelics prove how limited your natural brain's capacity is.

But this should not be turned into an limiting belief. There is lots of room for improvement.

[kieranperez]

On 5/15/2022 at 6:45 AM, Bufo Alvarius said:

In his recent newsletter, Peter Ralston makes a definite statement about psychedelics (see screenshot). Thoughts?

Cheng Hsin Newsletter.pdf

He’s 100% on the money. 

Edited May 20, 2022 by kieranperez