Peter Ralston NEW statement about psychedelics

[cetus]

@GreenWoods  The only difference between you and Ramana Maharshi is what? 

 

[UnbornTao]

"Normally this awareness is only generated after a long and arduous period of spiritual practice but in this case it happened spontaneously, without prior effort or desire. Venkataraman, the sixteen-year-old schoolboy, was alone in an upstairs room of his uncle’s house in Madurai (near the southern tip of India) when he was suddenly gripped by an intense fear of death. In the following few minutes he went through a simulated death experience during which he became consciously aware for the first time that his real nature was imperishable and that it was unrelated to the body, the mind or the personality. Many people have reported similar unexpected experiences but they are almost invariably temporary. In Venkataraman’s case the experience was permanent and irreversible. From that time on his consciousness of being an individual person ceased to exist and it never functioned in him again.

Venkataraman told no one about his experience and for six weeks he kept up the appearance of being an ordinary schoolboy. However, he found it an increasingly difficult posture to maintain and at the end of this six week period he abandoned his family and went directly to the holy mountain of Arunachala."

-- Be as you are, David Godman.

@Leo Gura

Edited May 20, 2022 by UnbornTao

[UnbornTao]

On 5/20/2022 at 1:17 AM, GreenWoods said:

@UnbornTao spontaneous awakenings usually happen only to people who are extremely spiritually talented.

He was as talented as maybe 1 in a billion.

 

For most people it is pretty much genetically impossible to achieve advanced levels of enlightenment through meditation alone.

Enlightenment occurs now, regardless of which activities precede it.

We sometimes assume that it will happen "some day". Set the intention to get it now.

Talent and genetics are relative things but I really don't know whether they have anything to do with enlightenment.

Edited May 21, 2022 by UnbornTao

[GreenWoods]

2 hours ago, cetus said:

@GreenWoods  The only difference between you and Ramana Maharshi is what? 

Imaginary?

Edited May 20, 2022 by GreenWoods

[Leo Gura]

22 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

"Normally this awareness is only generated after a long and arduous period of spiritual practice but in this case it happened spontaneously, without prior effort or desire. Venkataraman, the sixteen-year-old schoolboy, was alone in an upstairs room of his uncle’s house in Madurai (near the southern tip of India) when he was suddenly gripped by an intense fear of death. In the following few minutes he went through a simulated death experience during which he became consciously aware for the first time that his real nature was imperishable and that it was unrelated to the body, the mind or the personality. Many people have reported similar unexpected experiences but they are almost invariably temporary. In Venkataraman’s case the experience was permanent and irreversible. From that time on his consciousness of being an individual person ceased to exist and it never functioned in him again.

Venkataraman told no one about his experience and for six weeks he kept up the appearance of being an ordinary schoolboy. However, he found it an increasingly difficult posture to maintain and at the end of this six week period he abandoned his family and went directly to the holy mountain of Arunacha."

-- Be as you are, David Godman.

@Leo Gura

And what of the stories of him sitting in meditation for so long that bugs would be eating his body?

[UnbornTao]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

And what of the stories of him sitting in meditation for so long that bugs would be eating his body?

Blissful state?

At that point he had already awakened.

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Blissful state?

At that point he had already awakened.

From what I remember it was prior to his awakening.

[Brivido]

3 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Blissful state?

Yes, it was after his awakening, Ramana didn't really follow a spiritual practice himself. I guess he was spiritually talented or had extremely lucky genetics. For weeks he was in a state of bliss, at the foot of Arunachala. People from the village had to take him to a temple to wash him and feed him, otherwise he might actually have died there. Goes to show that a person can't function in the world from an extremely high level of consciousness. 

David Godman has a video about this specific story, don't recall which one exactly.

[UnbornTao]

On 5/20/2022 at 7:18 AM, Brivido said:

Yes, it was after his awakening, Ramana didn't really follow a spiritual practice himself. I guess he was spiritually talented or had extremely lucky genetics. For weeks he was in a state of bliss, at the foot of Arunachala. People from the village had to take him to a temple to wash him and feed him, otherwise he might actually have died there. Goes to show that a person can't function in the world from an extremely high level of consciousness. 

David Godman has a video about this specific story, don't recall which one exactly.

Thanks?

@Leo Gura

Edited May 21, 2022 by UnbornTao

[Gesundheit2]

On 19/05/2022 at 1:31 AM, Leo Gura said:

Peter Ralston is part of your dream. So is self-inquiry and contemplation. Watch your biases.

It's absurd that some of you guys with the anti-psychedelic position don't realize that your "natural" awakening is mediated by serotonin. No serotonin, no awakening. So really you are talking about serotonin awakening vs lets say DMT awakening. And you are foolishly claiming that serotinin awakening is real but DMT awakening is not.

There is no such thing as awakening without chemicals. Get that. And get that there is nothing special about your current set of chemicals.

Don't get me started on this.

[Razard86]

4 hours ago, Brivido said:

Yes, it was after his awakening, Ramana didn't really follow a spiritual practice himself. I guess he was spiritually talented or had extremely lucky genetics. For weeks he was in a state of bliss, at the foot of Arunachala. People from the village had to take him to a temple to wash him and feed him, otherwise he might actually have died there. Goes to show that a person can't function in the world from an extremely high level of consciousness. 

David Godman has a video about this specific story, don't recall which one exactly.

1. There is no such thing as luck. Not to be mean....but how can you discuss Spirituality and use the word luck?

2. People who are so called spiritually talented are really just versions of God that woke up and chose to come back in the dream to help others wake up. That's the only reason why they achieve those results so fast. Its like reaching the highest level of an MMO, beating it. Then logging back in to help others do the same.

[Consilience]

@GreenWoods Where in the world are you grtting this data from? Have you spent time in monasteries with monks, have you gone on retreats that are predominantly monks, how many retreats have you even been on, and how many hours have you actually meditated? 
 

It’s shocking how many people here who are anti meditation leading to enlightenment are just parroting beliefs without any real direct experience to back it up. 
 

[Batman]

7 minutes ago, Consilience said:

@GreenWoods Where in the world are you grtting this data from? Have you spent time in monasteries with monks, have you gone on retreats that are predominantly monks, how many retreats have you even been on, and how many hours have you actually meditated? 
 

It’s shocking how many people here who are anti meditation leading to enlightenment are just parroting beliefs without any real direct experience to back it up. 
 

The practice of meditation does not lead to enlightenment. It may help with focus, concertation, or calming the mind and creating other states of mind, but it has nothing to do with enlightenment. 

[Brivido]

46 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

1. There is no such thing as luck.

If someone has a different brain chemistry from birth, that's luck to me. I speak from direct experience, I can get into a nondual state just by meditating for 10 minutes and I consider myself lucky, since other people seem to struggle for years without achieving anything remotely similar (I have worked my ass off to reach this stage and I still consider myself lucky). 

49 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

help others wake up

That is just a cute story that you have read somewhere. With a deep enough awakening you will realize that there are no others and no-one needs to be saved. You are God and God doesn't need to be saved by anyone.

[Consilience]

45 minutes ago, Batman said:

The practice of meditation does not lead to enlightenment. It may help with focus, concertation, or calming the mind and creating other states of mind, but it has nothing to do with enlightenment. 

This is not my direct experience, at all. Sounds like you’ve had bad teachers and/or haven’t explored meditation very deeply. 

[GreenWoods]

1 hour ago, Razard86 said:

2. People who are so called spiritually talented are really just versions of God that woke up and chose to come back in the dream to help others wake up. That's the only reason why they achieve those results so fast. Its like reaching the highest level of an MMO, beating it. Then logging back in to help others do the same.

I think that's usually the case. When someone is already very advanced (for example due to past lives) and then incarnates again, then that person usually is very genetically gifted. So I think a high level of advancement causes good genetics.

Maybe, when the person isn't born yet or when the person is still very young, the brain is probably a lot more mallable and then consciousness or the soul or just the psychic power of that person naturally changes genetics. That's just one possible explanation though.

In this explanation, the genetics based on luck would still play some role. Because if the genetics are already great due to luck, then it will be easier for the soul to cause even better genetics. 

[GreenWoods]

2 hours ago, Consilience said:

@GreenWoods Where in the world are you grtting this data from? Have you spent time in monasteries with monks, have you gone on retreats that are predominantly monks, how many retreats have you even been on, and how many hours have you actually meditated? 
 

It’s shocking how many people here who are anti meditation leading to enlightenment are just parroting beliefs without any real direct experience to back it up. 

I've never been on an external retreat or visited monks in a monastery (but I did meet and talk with people who are or were monks for years).

I've done several retreats at home.

All in all I've probably done close to 7 000 hours of spiritual practices, including normal meditation, self inquiry, kriya yoga, sleep yoga, transmissions, invocations,....

 

My assessment of these masters was based on intuition and speculation. 

My assessment on most monks is based on what I've read online and on some videos I watched of monks.

If I watch a video of someone I can somewhat intuit that person's void dimension, and to a lesser extend Illumination and magnitude dimension too. It's not accurate but I think it usually fits to some extend. At least far more accurate than an assessment that I would have done a few years ago with far less intuitive perception. 

Would you disagree that most monks haven't reached Mooji's level?

1 hour ago, Consilience said:

This is not my direct experience, at all. Sounds like you’ve had bad teachers and/or haven’t explored meditation very deeply. 

Meditation can lead to enlightenment. But for any serious level of enlightenment, I think that would require many decades or it requires you to be talented.

If someone makes good enlightenment process with meditation, then that is the sign that this person is naturally talented. 

As Batman was saying, meditation has different strengths. Like happiness, peace, mental and emotional mastery, self awareness, focus,...

Edited May 20, 2022 by GreenWoods

[Batman]

55 minutes ago, Consilience said:

This is not my direct experience, at all. Sounds like you’ve had bad teachers and/or haven’t explored meditation very deeply. 

Meditation is about creating or changing conditions of mind. For example, if SDS has been practiced for many hours, the mind is conditioned to sit relentlessly without reactivity to stimuli. If meditation is practiced as concentration on breath, the mind is conditioned to focus on breath.

After awakening, it is obvious that meditation is not needed at all, unless there is some intention to condition the mind in some way or play with subtle energies. 

Actually, meditation can perpetuate the illusion that there is a self that needs to practice something in order to awaken or get enlightened. I see many "meditators" get totally observed by the practice, which has only become only another attachment and hindrance to awakening. For example, I have a friend who has done many vipassana retreats, always telling how amazing he felt at the end of it. This feeling never lasted though when he returned to socializing. 

Of course, awakening can occur on every activity. But if there is a personality that thinks it is going to awake by sitting cross legged and focusing on some object of mind, this is just another illusion of the mind. I really hope you don't fuck up your knees and back by obsessing with meditative practice.

[Consilience]

29 minutes ago, Batman said:

Meditation is about creating or changing conditions of mind.

Preparatory practices yes. The highest meditation teachings and instructions are not about manipulating one’s state, but resting in the recognition of the “Buddha Nature” of all states. Usually if one hasn’t adequately and yes, relatively, “purified” their mind, this recognition is shallow and swamped in self deception. This type self-deception is rampant in the Neo Advaita community, for example. 

[Consilience]

1 hour ago, GreenWoods said:

Meditation can lead to enlightenment. But for any serious level of enlightenment, I think that would require many decades or it requires you to be talented.

Or a massive amount of work in a short period of time most are unwilling to do yet are fully capable of doing if we’re only work a 40 hour work week. 
 

1 hour ago, GreenWoods said:

If someone makes good enlightenment process with meditation, then that is the sign that this person is naturally talented. 

This natural talent has less to do with one’s response to meditation and much more to do with one’s faith, openness and diligence in the practice. Those that practice diligently, going on retreats regularly, strong daily practice, working with a teacher, studying, etc. are the ones who see the real fruit of the meditative path. If someone happens to have the natural talent of seeing and having faith in the practice, has a natural talent of discipline and diligence, has the natural talent of having the humility and openness to work with a teacher, yeah, huge factor. As far as one’s response to the practice being driven by “talent” that is very suspicious from my pov. Ive never met a genuine sage who hasnt worked their ass off.