Peter Ralston NEW statement about psychedelics

[ThePoint]

10 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

I go to Mexico.   Plant medicines are part of the Mexican culture and it is possible to find qualified Shamen and facilitators.  Go to Facebook and put in keywords like "Mexico", "Ayahausca", etc.   It may be possible, in the US, but I don't know anything about the scene there.

@Jodistrict Are psychedelics legal in Mexico? 
 

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Yes he has.

But that doesn't make it any better. It actually makes his claims worse. If he had zero experience it would be more forgivable.

What psychedelics has he tried?

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, ThePoint said:

What psychedelics has he tried?

From what I know, 1000ug of LSD.

[Consilience]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Truth doesn't care at all if you suffer.

Likewise, truth doesn't care at all if you're on a peak 5-MeO trip or a meth addict. There are no levels or degrees to what is Absolute. 

We're talking in circles. I've said this before and I'll say it again, in 10 years when you're still having to take 5-MeO to access God, we'll see who's "much more conscious." I pray there are those on this forum that see through the delusion. 

 

 

[Gesundheit2]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You cannot maintain human function at the highest levels.

I'm not sure whether this is high or low consciousness. Sounds arbitrary.

[Vincent S]

2 hours ago, Consilience said:

The fact of the matter is psychedelics do not produce the kind of fundamental shifts manual practices produce. After many incredibly, heart wrenchingly deep trips, I always came down. Sit in meditation for hours on end and you’ll discover VERY quickly just how disconnected from God you are. It’s the easiest litmus test. If one is actually conscious of the nature of God, simply being is not only an activity impossible for suffering to arise, but it is one of the most fulfilling activities available. 
 

I would challenge anyone who disagrees with Peter to attempt sitting for 2 hours and seeing whether the mind is in complete harmony, clarity, equanimity with the moment by moment flow of reality, or whether your lost in thought, confused, overcome with hinderances. 
 

What Peter is talking about is absolutely spot on and a couple of years ago when I still *believed* Leo’s claims, I thought he was a fool. It’s only after at this point multiple thousands of hours of manual practice and I starting to directly realize how right Peter is and the limitations of psychedelics. 
 

Leo has a survival agenda, a bias, a sales pitch, an “offering” as the psychedelic guy who shits on other spiritual teachers. It’s just a new ego and he’s consolidated around it, his current brand relies on it. But if you really want to fundamentally, radically change your life and and actually, permanently rewire your mind, psychedelics can only show you the way, but are inherently limited and not it. If you aspire to such goals, hours upon hours upon hours of meditation, contemplation, and silence are the way. The best part - these hours will be some of the most fulfilling times of your life, and only becoming increasingly rewarding and accessible as practice develops. 

It's real simple. Your "physical body" reacts to what you program it with during your "day to day life". If you sit down and meditate and turn your whole life in to a meditation practice, obviously your physical being is going to produce exactly what fits in with your type of living.
When you start your practice and you are new to meditation, you go through a process of filtering out the blockages between your truest state.
This process, if done long enough, will produce exactly what psychedelics do to your "physical body". So when you sit down and meditate for 2 hours, you start to produce the experience of being in harmony, bliss or clarity. As you mentioned.

It's the exact same thing with psychedelics. When you begin to take your psychedelics you go through the same filtering process, but during a shorter period of time. But since people just pop these without knowing or preparing themselves with a genuine practice or lifestyle change, it forces them in to changing drastically. And when they don't = the state changes and you go back to baseline.

Same thing with meditation, you drop your practice completely = you go back to baseline. Because your physical body reacts to what you do, or program it with.

The problem with these debates and topics is that people fall under the false impression that its ONLY about meditation, or ONLY about taking psychedelics. It's both. But if you have a hard time living a "normal" life and not meditating 12+ hours per day, psychedelics will work just fine.

It's about changing your way of being and lining up with your TRUTH, and keeping yourself aligned with your life and your way of being.
No matter if you do meditation, breathing techniques, trauma-work, deprogramming, or psychedelics. Work with whatever fits your style.
And stop thinking that this is a one sided approach.
 

Edited May 16, 2022 by Vincent S

[stefm5]

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's not a contest at all.

It's a matter of awakening as high as you can. Since that's what God wants.

If you are not questioning whether you can awaken higher then you ain't serious about Truth/God/Consciousness/Love.

shouldn't be a contest. but i see egos fighting over the way to achieve it. which is hilarious because aspect of awakening is accepting that everything is god. 

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Consilience said:

Likewise, truth doesn't care at all if you're on a peak 5-MeO trip or a meth addict. There are no levels or degrees to what is Absolute. 

Yes. But you're not conscious of all that you could be.

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We're talking in circles. I've said this before and I'll say it again, in 10 years when you're still having to take 5-MeO to access God, we'll see who's "much more conscious." I pray there are those on this forum that see through the delusion.

I don't need to take 5-MeO to access God. I am God. Now and forever.

I could turn this around on you: in 10 years you'll still be having to meditate to access God. Silly logic.

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, stefm5 said:

shouldn't be a contest. but i see egos fighting over the way to achieve it. which is hilarious because aspect of awakening is accepting that everything is god. 

It's not hilarious. It's a serious and important discussion of method and what's possible with spirituality. A more important discussion cannot exist within spirituality.

Naively accepting/assuming that every path leads to maximal consciousness is moronic and harmful. Everything is God, but not everything leads to maximal consciousness. If this was true then you wouldn't need spiritual teachings or techniques at all, you could stick your finger up your butt and become enlightened. If you are serious you must distinguish between which techniques are more vs less effective.

[Michal__]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's not hilarious. It's a serious and important discussion of method and what's possible with spirituality. A more important discussion cannot exist within spirituality.

Naively accepting/assuming that every path leads to maximal consciousness is moronic and harmful. Everything is God, but not everything leads to maximal consciousness. If this was true then you wouldn't need spiritual teachings or techniques at all, you could stick your finger up your butt and become enlightened. If you are serious you must distinguish between which techniques are more vs less effective.

Yeah, there has to be a lsd blotter on the finger.

[stefm5]

11 minutes ago, Consilience said:

Also, this 'you' you're referring to is just self clinging, pure ego. Best to let go of self referential thought. 

the 'you' was ironic but i'd really like to know who is speaking here without having a pure ego. 

[Thought Art]

I think it’s worth say that… learn from ralston and attending his retreats is very valuable to your development. 
 

So would be trying Leo’s techniques. 
 

your teachers don’t need to agree and can both be useful 

[stefm5]

the fighting is hilarious. i agree on the rest. but my point is that you cannot prove anything to anyone in this work. each person has to see for himself. i don't like the blame game which is more present from the zen school side.

ps. i even know which exact time Brendan Lee will pop up saying hi in Ralston's videos. I appreciate every teaching but i'm in this forum because i feel there is something more.

Edited May 16, 2022 by stefm5

[Leo Gura]

@Consilience FYI, you're not even conscious yet that you are imagining Ralston and myself.

[Koeke]

25 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

26 minutes ago, ThePoint said:

What psychedelics has he tried?

From what I know, 1000ug of LSD.

Where does he talk about it? I think that this might settle some of the arguments. Seeing what Ralston thinks he has gotten from psychedelics. If they have opened his mind such that contemplation of the Absolute happened more effectively but that they themselves didn't cause any increase in consciousness would be coherent with Leo's pov, I think. Either way, I would highly appreciate Ralston's trip report

[Breakingthewall]

45 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If you're living an egoic and stressed life, you haven't realized God. The end of suffering and the realization of the nature of reality go hand in hand. 

The realization of the nature of reality is what happens when all the barriers dissapear. this can occur with psychedelics, meditating, or sleeping. you can realize 200 times the absolute and unlimited nature of reality, and each time return to the same old egoic behavior patterns. what's more, you can choose to do it, simply because you like it. Normally, the ego relaxes after each dissolution, but this does not have to be the case.

Before you spoke of the horror of rebirth. could you elaborate on it? (The answer is for consilence no for Leo, the sistem changed the names)

Edited May 16, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Koeke said:

Where does he talk about it?

I asked him in private.

[Consilience]

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Consilience FYI, you're not even conscious yet that you are imagining Ralston and myself.

Do you see how utterly childish and egoic this is? It’s actually profound and a great teaching for those who can see with wisdom. 

[billiesimon]

14 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Why would you credit the increase to them, though? You could've achieved the same results or even better if you spent the same amount of time on the same practices sober. How would you know that they're the producer of the results?

Because I also do the sober practices. Self inquiry, meditation, and A LOT of self-therapy/introspection, and I can recognize the amount of progress these one give me, compared to the psychedelic progress.

Psychedelics enhance consciousness, intelligence and sensitivity. All these qualities are fundamental to evolve. Of course sober practices are key, you need to keep using them. I'm just saying that normal practices are the fundamentals, but psychedelics are the boosters.

[Consilience]

23 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Before you spoke of the horror of rebirth. could you elaborate on it?

At the moment of physical death, all of this philosophizing, all of the psychedelic highs, all of the egoic titillation will be gone, completely gone. All that remains is the karmic momentum of the mind, the true mind that generates reality. The momentum of this mind is what facilitates the expression of a new incarnation. If you haven’t noticed, the overwhelming majority of life is a just a bombardment of misery, stress, pain, and suffering. It is a very, VERY, rare gift to be given a life capable of aspiring to enlightenment, to abide in true happiness and truth. 
 

If one hasn’t actually cultivated and purified their minds, the likelihood of getting another shot at walking the path is slim. Again, look at the overwhelming majority of humans and other life forms. Devilish delusion and stress reign supreme. 
 

To actually begin walking the path towards truth, to actually begin transforming the mind, is an ineffable gift and the only thing you’d take with you at the moment of physical death. All of these psychedelic highs, no more significant than dust. 

[Batman]

He is correct, it does not matter what state of consciousness you are in, it is always consciousness any ways. He even acknowledges in some way that altering the mind with drugs can open you to "unusual possibilities", which probably includes the possibility of awakening. Of course that I would love to hear his perspective in the matter after trying DMT/Ayahuasca/5-MEO, but that probably won't happen. 

I can also get why he doesn't support psychedelics in regard to enlightenment. When the effect of the drug wears off, usually the mind comes back online in its original form/wiring. Maybe with very deep and transformational trip something has changed, but I don't see many psychonauts who knows what they are. Of course that tripping intensively might become a some sort of contemplation - you go "inside" and watch many times how your framework for reality dissolve while YOU stay, so as a practice it can reveal over time the many assumptions that create the illusion of being someone in a world that is real. However, I bet that there many people that even though they did many LSD/Psilocybin and even DMT/Ayahuasca trips, still haven't "got it". The mind is really good at doing his job and at the end of the trip, it is almost impossible to integrate high consciousness into your life when you have survival, work, relationships and general life to maintain.