Peter Ralston NEW statement about psychedelics

[ardacigin]

All enlightened people (who've tried them) needs to give some credit to the usefulness of psychedelics. Downplaying it too much from an insight perspective is not a good idea.

But there are many people who drop their 'sober' practice thinking psychedelics are end-all be-all. They get allured by the insight-peak experience combo which arises in many sessions.

You basically need a way to consolidate these insights. Work on them. Chew at them. Get a deeper grasp on them that buries each insight into all aspects of your life. Depth doesn't go vertically only. It also goes horizontally.

In this sense, Peter's words are wise and should be listened to by all psychedelic users.

 

 

[Brivido]

Every single teacher of enlightenment is going to favour and teach to his students the way he reached enlightenment, discarding and, in most cases, belittling other practices:

1. Ralston teaches contemplation.
2. Ramana teaches self-enquiry.
3. Nisargadatta teaches staying in the I Am. 
4. Sadhguru teaches Isha Kriya.
5. Jed McKenna teaches Spiritual Autolysis.

And so on for every other teacher. 

Most teachers fail to appreciate the complexity and varieties of spirituality and spiritual practices. For instance, if I asked Ralston about chakras, he would probably tell me something along the lines "It's all bullshit, get real" and that's a shame, because I know directly that energy practices can lead to enlightenment. Just because someone has realized the Absolute in a specific way, it doesn't mean that that practice is going to work for you too. Don't take the word of anyone as gospel, even incredibly conscious people can be wrong about the nuances of spirituality.

What if you could study all different spiritual practices, with an open mind, and practice what gives you the best results? 

[Vibroverse]

There are no psychedelics. 

[Gesundheit2]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Psychedelics produce absolute consciousness. End of story.

Consider that maybe this "absolute consciousness" is not the ultimate truth that Peter is referring to. Your psychedelic/ultimate truth seems different, because it seems to suggest that there is no Peter to be right or wrong, nor psychedelics to take or reject, nor anyone to awaken or sleep. Yet, here you are using the relative framework from the relative consciousness that Peter seems to be speaking from.

[Zeroguy]

2 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Consider that maybe this "absolute consciousness" is not the ultimate truth that Peter is referring to. Your psychedelic/ultimate truth seems different, because it seems to suggest that there is no Peter to be right or wrong, nor psychedelics to take or reject, nor anyone to awaken or sleep. Yet, here you are using the relative framework from the relative consciousness that Peter seems to be speaking from.

Nailed it.

[Aimblack]

I've seen bits and pieces where Leo responds to rejection of psychedelics from spiritual teachers but is there a video where he addresses that in detail?

[Consilience]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I am talking about Absolute Consciousness. Not anything relative.

Psychedelics produce absolute consciousness. End of story. You cannot weasle your way out of this with clever words and definitions.

Peter is wrong, wrong, wrong about all this.

The fact of the matter is psychedelics do not produce the kind of fundamental shifts manual practices produce. After many incredibly, heart wrenchingly deep trips, I always came down. Sit in meditation for hours on end and you’ll discover VERY quickly just how disconnected from God you are. It’s the easiest litmus test. If one is actually conscious of the nature of God, simply being is not only an activity impossible for suffering to arise, but it is one of the most fulfilling activities available. 
 

I would challenge anyone who disagrees with Peter to attempt sitting for 2 hours and seeing whether the mind is in complete harmony, clarity, equanimity with the moment by moment flow of reality, or whether your lost in thought, confused, overcome with hinderances. 
 

What Peter is talking about is absolutely spot on and a couple of years ago when I still *believed* Leo’s claims, I thought he was a fool. It’s only after at this point multiple thousands of hours of manual practice and I starting to directly realize how right Peter is and the limitations of psychedelics. 
 

Leo has a survival agenda, a bias, a sales pitch, an “offering” as the psychedelic guy who shits on other spiritual teachers. It’s just a new ego and he’s consolidated around it, his current brand relies on it. But if you really want to fundamentally, radically change your life and and actually, permanently rewire your mind, psychedelics can only show you the way, but are inherently limited and not it. If you aspire to such goals, hours upon hours upon hours of meditation, contemplation, and silence are the way. The best part - these hours will be some of the most fulfilling times of your life, and only becoming increasingly rewarding and accessible as practice develops. 

[Consilience]

1 hour ago, ardacigin said:

All enlightened people (who've tried them) needs to give some credit to the usefulness of psychedelics. Downplaying it too much from an insight perspective is not a good idea.

But there are many people who drop their 'sober' practice thinking psychedelics are end-all be-all. They get allured by the insight-peak experience combo which arises in many sessions.

You basically need a way to consolidate these insights. Work on them. Chew at them. Get a deeper grasp on them that buries each insight into all aspects of your life. Depth doesn't go vertically only. It also goes horizontally.

In this sense, Peter's words are wise and should be listened to by all psychedelic users.

 

 

+1
 

Psychedelics in this community, for all their strengths, seem to promote one of the most notorious hinderances, perhaps the worst one from a certain point of view - Doubt. Doubt in the path, doubt in the practice. If you cannot overcome this doubt about meditation, you’re really screwed, especially in future lifetimes. 

[The Mystical Man]

9 minutes ago, Consilience said:

The fact of the matter is psychedelics do not produce the kind of fundamental shifts manual practices produce. After many incredibly, heart wrenchingly deep trips, I always came down. Sit in meditation for hours on end and you’ll discover VERY quickly just how disconnected from God you are. It’s the easiest litmus test. If one is actually conscious of the nature of God, simply being is not only an activity impossible for suffering to arise, but it is one of the most fulfilling activities available. 
 

I would challenge anyone who disagrees with Peter to attempt sitting for 2 hours and seeing whether the mind is in complete harmony, clarity, equanimity with the moment by moment flow of reality, or whether your lost in thought, confused, overcome with hinderances. 
 

What Peter is talking about is absolutely spot on and a couple of years ago when I still *believed* Leo’s claims, I thought he was a fool. It’s only after at this point multiple thousands of hours of manual practice and I starting to directly realize how right Peter is and the limitations of psychedelics. 
 

Leo has a survival agenda, a bias, a sales pitch, an “offering” as the psychedelic guy who shits on other spiritual teachers. It’s just a new ego and he’s consolidated around it, his current brand relies on it. But if you really want to fundamentally, radically change your life and and actually, permanently rewire your mind, psychedelics can only show you the way, but are inherently limited and not it. If you aspire to such goals, hours upon hours upon hours of meditation, contemplation, and silence are the way. The best part - these hours will be some of the most fulfilling times of your life, and only becoming increasingly rewarding and accessible as practice develops. 

I agree with this. 

"There is one proof of the pudding. Are you still in conflict? Do you experience emotional and psychological conflict? That's the liberation part. No more argument with yourself, no more argument with death, no more argument with God, no more argument with the world." - Adya

[Leo Gura]

41 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Consider that maybe this "absolute consciousness" is not the ultimate truth that Peter is referring to

No.

And if you question his best students you will realize they are not God-realized.

But I'm not gonna argue with you guys about it. Some day you will realize I was right.

[nistake]

3 hours ago, JosephKnecht said:

Psychedelics work. 

The only question is what is the right balance between increasing your 'baseline' consciousness, vs 'peak experiences'.

The bias of Peter is that he hasn't done too many psychedelics, while the bias of Leo is that he has done too many of them. 

Finding the right balance is your responsibility. 

Yup, totally agree with this.

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Consilience said:

The fact of the matter is psychedelics do not produce the kind of fundamental shifts manual practices produce. After many incredibly, heart wrenchingly deep trips, I always came down. Sit in meditation for hours on end and you’ll discover VERY quickly just how disconnected from God you are. It’s the easiest litmus test. If one is actually conscious of the nature of God, simply being is not only an activity impossible for suffering to arise, but it is one of the most fulfilling activities available. 

realizing the absolute is different than living day by day in harmony. You can realize God and decide to live an egoic and stressed life because you have seen that ultimately, everything is the same, in the end the absolute is and there is nothing else. or prefer a monastic life in harmony realizing the wonder of everything at every moment, or perhaps a middle ground. but, the reality is that if you want your mind to open completely to infinity at some point, you have to do 5 meo, or some psychedelic, or else be one of the very few monks that this happens to. who is going to go to a monastery to spend a year meditating all day until their mind is freed from all the ties of the ego and the barriers are diluted? very few, minimal minimum. instead with 5meo, at home, on a Tuesday afternoon, you snort 25 mg and done. It's not a small thing realize the infinity, it changes your life. teachers who speak to millions should be aware of something so obvious

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Consilience said:

The fact of the matter is psychedelics do not produce the kind of fundamental shifts manual practices produce.

You will never reach thru manual practices the levels of consciousness I have reached. No amount of meditation will get you there.

To think you have or will is delusional and misleading to students.

[stefm5]

2 hours ago, Consilience said:

"Leo has a survival agenda, a bias, a sales pitch, an “offering” 

funny, Ralston has too.

the reality here is that awakening has become a dick contest. but that is also 'god'.

meditation is imaginary, psychedelics are imaginary. why all this endless debates? practice whatever you like but at the end of the day you can't prove anything to anyone. it's all about 'you'

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, stefm5 said:

the reality here is that awakening has become a dick contest.

It's not a contest at all.

It's a matter of awakening as high as you can. Since that's what God wants.

If you are not questioning whether you can awaken higher then you ain't serious about Truth/God/Consciousness/Love.

[Consilience]

39 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You will never reach thru manual practices the levels of consciousness I have reached. No amount of meditation will get you there.

To think you have or will is delusional and misleading to students.

The entire paradigm “levels of consciousness” is the barrier to truth. A truth so absolute, so  indiscriminatory, so profound, it cuts through even a peak 5-meo experience.

This entire framing of your writing points to such profound, astonishing delusion about the nature of this work. This community has devolved into the blind leading the blind.  

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, Consilience said:

The entire paradigm “levels of consciousness” is the barrier to truth. A truth so absolute, so  indiscriminatory, so profound, it cuts through even a peak 5-meo experience

And yet, that Truth has degrees.

Accessing Absolute Truth is pretty easy. Doesn't require much consciousness to achieve that. I don't need to be high to be conscious of Absolute Truth. Doesn't amount to much.

If you were maximally conscious you would not be able to type on this forum. So the fact that you're here in human form tells me you ain't got it. You cannot maintain human function at the highest levels.

The notion that you are maximally conscious is laughable. That is the astonishing delusion.

[Consilience]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Accessing Absolute Truth is pretty easy. Doesn't require much consciousness to achieve that. I don't need to high to be conscious of Absolute Truth. Doesn't amount to much.

Accessing absolute truth means your mind doesn't suffer. So no it's not pretty easy. Again, try sitting for 2 hours. Watch as your addict like mind clings to itself, its addictions, and cuts itself off from this "easily accessible" absolute truth.

I'm not making the claim it's easy to access, I'm making the claim that it is beyond all distinction, duality, levels, and peak/mundane experiences. It makes peak meditative and psychedelic experiences obsolete. To say this moment is not the highest expression or understanding of God is to fundamentally misunderstand the nature of God.

[Consilience]

32 minutes ago, stefm5 said:

funny, Ralston has too.

the reality here is that awakening has become a dick contest. but that is also 'god'.

meditation is imaginary, psychedelics are imaginary. why all this endless debates? practice whatever you like but at the end of the day you can't prove anything to anyone. it's all about 'you'

If you understood the horror of rebirth and how really, the only thing you can take with you is the quality of your karma, you'd have a different perspective on the necessity of walking the path. 

Also, this 'you' you're referring to is just self clinging, pure ego. Best to let go of self referential thought. 

 

59 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

realizing the absolute is different than living day by day in harmony. You can realize God and decide to live an egoic and stressed life because you have seen that ultimately, everything is the same, in the end the absolute is and there is nothing else. or prefer a monastic life in harmony realizing the wonder of everything at every moment, or perhaps a middle ground. but, the reality is that if you want your mind to open completely to infinity at some point, you have to do 5 meo, or some psychedelic, or else be one of the very few monks that this happens to. who is going to go to a monastery to spend a year meditating all day until their mind is freed from all the ties of the ego and the barriers are diluted? very few, minimal minimum. instead with 5meo, at home, on a Tuesday afternoon, you snort 25 mg and done. It's not a small thing realize the infinity, it changes your life. teachers who speak to millions should be aware of something so obvious

If you're living an egoic and stressed life, you haven't realized God. The end of suffering and the realization of the nature of reality go hand in hand. 

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Consilience said:

Accessing absolute truth means your mind doesn't suffer.

No it doesn't. This is totally irrelevant.

Quote

Again, try sitting for 2 hours. Watch as your addict like mind clings to itself, its addictions, and cuts itself off from this "easily accessible" absolute truth.

Makes zero difference. Absolute Truth is Absolute Truth even if you are a meth addict jerking off to porn for 8 hours straight.

You are conflating various human attainments for Consciousness and Truth. Truth doesn't care at all if you suffer or how you behave. You can behave like a total monster and still be conscious of the Absolute.

Quote

To say this moment is not the highest expression or understanding of God is to fundamentally misunderstand the nature of God.

This moment is God of course. But you're dreaming. The nature of God is infinite dreaming.

Play whatever word games you want, but you are not maximally conscious. You could be much more conscious than you currently are. Your lack of consciousness doesn't make you any less God. But it does mean you're disconnected from your highest self.