Satisfied action vs dissatisfied craving

[B222]

Eckhart Tolle, in “a new earth” talks about egoic structure of excessive wanting, needing, “must have more” which implies dissatisfaction with what is, a constant sense of lack… does it always mean this? Is the opposite a structure that is satisfied and content, but still wants and needs things, for example, to evolve and carry out the souls mission? 
He says “the content is interchangeable. As long as you don’t recognise those thought forms within yourself, as long as they remain unconscious, you will believe in what they say; you will be condemned to seeking and not finding—because when those thought forms operate, no possession, place, person, or condition will ever satisfy you. No content will satisfy you as long the egoic structure remains in place.”
I think it leads back to being present and acting from there. How to tell the difference between satisfied action, and dissatisfied, excessive wanting? He also says “you will always be looking for something else that promises greater fulfilment, that promises to make your incomplete sense of self complete and fill that sense of lack you feel within” but isn’t the act of carrying out ‘souls urge’ so to speak, fulfilling in itself. Like the saying “it’s the journey, not the destination”? Is it possible to feel completely satisfied while wanting more? If not, aren’t we always meant to feel some sense of dissatisfaction so that we act and evolve? 

Will have to revisit Leo’s content vs structure video, he probably goes into it there.

Edited May 14, 2022 by B222

[Gianna]

No it doesn’t always mean this and you can desire for reasons other than emptiness, excessive craving, etc.

Ultimately, we are what we desire.
So we desire to know what we are,
to know what we can become.  

When we start to desire something we are in the process of becoming it (actualizing it) so we can know ourself; so we can know what we can become and thus what we can feel, create, and experience as ourself. 
 

So as soon as we experience what we desire we are amended and understanding arises— self-awareness is born. So you can see the purpose of this desire here does not innately come from emptiness or neediness but for a pure desire of self-knowing and self-awareness. 
 

I haven’t read a new earth but I think what Tolle is talking about is desire that comes from aversion (I want this thing to get away from something else). But if your question is, 

Can there be desiring that does not come from aversion but merely for the sake of the desire? The answer is yes and an example is the one above (desire of self-awareness). 

Another example is,

do you want to be rich to get away from poverty? Or simply to understand the experience of what it’s like to be rich?

Do you want to be skinny to get away from fatness? Or to feel the freedom and love of self confidence? The first comes from pain and the second comes from a more purified form of desire. You could say, as you put, a desire of the soul.  

As human, we are designed with sense of dissatisfaction so that we act and evolve. However, it is possible to not be dissatisfied with the dissatisfaction when we heal our relationship with desire itself (by means of not creating it out of aversion and eradicating all beliefs/thoughts that we can’t get everything we desire, because we can— we are the desire itself.)  Why would we not be able to attain ourself? Once we realize this we will have an exalted form of desire that does not have to come through needing, wanting, and aversion  but just for the sake of it. Like eating strawberry ice cream just for the sake of trying it. 

Edited May 14, 2022 by Gianna

[WelcometoReality]

2 hours ago, B222 said:

Eckhart Tolle, in “a new earth” talks about egoic structure of excessive wanting, needing, “must have more” which implies dissatisfaction with what is, a constant sense of lack… does it always mean this? Is the opposite a structure that is satisfied and content, but still wants and needs things, for example, to evolve and carry out the souls mission? 

Wants (desire) is based on dissatisfaction, yes. Without desire and dissatisfaction there is still doing but without the struggle of desire.

2 hours ago, B222 said:

He says “the content is interchangeable. As long as you don’t recognise those thought forms within yourself, as long as they remain unconscious, you will believe in what they say; you will be condemned to seeking and not finding—because when those thought forms operate, no possession, place, person, or condition will ever satisfy you. No content will satisfy you as long the egoic structure remains in place.”

True. 

2 hours ago, B222 said:

I think it leads back to being present and acting from there. How to tell the difference between satisfied action, and dissatisfied, excessive wanting?

If the present only feels like a way to get to the future, the goal of the wanting, then it's based on desire. But if you're content with doing whatever you're doing in the present without any thought about getting there, be done etc the it's not based on desire.

 

2 hours ago, B222 said:

Like the saying “it’s the journey, not the destination”?

?

2 hours ago, B222 said:

Is it possible to feel completely satisfied while wanting more? If not, aren’t we always meant to feel some sense of dissatisfaction so that we act and evolve? 

If you are discontent with the present moment just let go of the feeling that makes it seem that way and enjoy. ?

[VeganAwake]

The apparent issue is that the everyday ordinary experience of separation itself feels incomplete or unsatisfactory. 

So this apparent sense of self attempts to figure out a way to make itself feel whole and satisfied.

But these attempts are completely futile and only perpetuate the illusory experience that there is a real separate self with freewill & choice that can one day in the future become whole and satisfied.(with enough diligent training & focus of course?)

And the cosmic joke is: there already isn't anyone that's separate or incomplete to begin with...it's an illusion!

Or

An unreal experiencer having an unreal problem!

❤ 

 

 

[gettoefl]

desiring is to make a better dream, longing is to exit the dream

[Fernanda]

Maybe be we can trace the distinction between "desire" and "will". Desire could come from lack, the thought form of something missing that needs to be fullfilled, while "will" comes with an intent and a sense of purpose of experiencing something for its own sake. To take the bridge we would have to go beyond fear.

Edited May 15, 2022 by Fernanda

[B222]

@Fernanda ??
 

@VeganAwake nice ty. So would you say that all desire stems from this sense of separation that leads to the urge of wanting to accomplish being whole? 

 

@WelcometoReality desire doesn’t always have to be a struggle tho right? It’s only a problem when we’re hurt through it not being fulfilled? Also heard recently that essentially, the reason life is, is because of an initial desire to expand. Can’t remember exactly how it was put.

@Gianna nice post, thanks! 

[WelcometoReality]

2 hours ago, B222 said:

@WelcometoReality desire doesn’t always have to be a struggle tho right? It’s only a problem when we’re hurt through it not being fulfilled? Also heard recently that essentially, the reason life is, is because of an initial desire to expand. Can’t remember exactly how it was put.

Desire stems from lack so it's always a struggle before the desired object is aquired. When we get the desired object the lack disappears but not because we got what we wanted but because the desire has stopped. You can see this for your self. Once desire "hits" you do you feel fulfilled or do you feel like something is missing? ?

Desire is a complicated topic because there is a belief that desire brings happiness and hence desire is a positive emotion. And that if we let go of desire we won't get anywhere in life. That we will just lay in bed and do nothing. That doesn't really hit the mark because we can do anything we want even though we let the desire go. The only difference is there won't be any lack and all of life will start to feel fulfilling. We start to move to higher emotions such as courage, acceptance and love. 

Yes life is about expansion. However if we stay in the state of desire then expansion will stop and we will never get truly fulfilled.

 

[Breakingthewall]

desire is essential. Anyone who is a little intelligent will realize that life raised in an egoic way is a trap. you are trapped in trying to get things when you know for sure that your destiny is decay and death. a heavy joke. then you want to get out of that trap. you are like the prisoner who digs with a spoon. you want to get out with strength and determination, no matter what else. you do what is necessary to get out of jail, you don't think about anything else. you would destroy the world if necessary but you are going to get out of jail. and at the end you go out, thanks to desire. you are free at the end 

 

[VeganAwake]

7 hours ago, B222 said:

@VeganAwake nice ty. So would you say that all desire stems from this sense of separation that leads to the urge of wanting to accomplish being whole? 

It depends on "your" definition of desire.

The body can desire/crave food, water, sex, sleep, nicotine.

And then a lot of desire stems from social conditioning, wanting new things, materialism basically to improve "one's self" image. 

There's nothing right or wrong with desire....it's not good or bad.(of course society would say having a desire to hurt or kill someone is bad)

But overall yes, the desire I'm talking about is that constant feeling of lack or incompleteness, that something isn't quite right and "I" need to fix it.....I need to become whole and totally satisfied. 

The whole thing is a crock of shit because awakening reveals this entire character called "ME" with all of its unquenchable and needy desires is completely unreal!!

❤ 

 

 

Edited May 16, 2022 by VeganAwake

[Matthew85]

On 5/14/2022 at 6:33 AM, B222 said:

Eckhart Tolle, in “a new earth” talks about egoic structure of excessive wanting, needing, “must have more” which implies dissatisfaction with what is, a constant sense of lack… does it always mean this?

@B222 No it doesn't. There are many distorted beliefs around desire. Just take a look at everything that makes up your life. It all came into existence because of a desire. Part of the confusion stems from people having desires that they doubt and don't believe they can have which leads to suffering. The solution is not to get rid of your desires. The solution is to align your beliefs with what you desire.  

On 5/14/2022 at 6:33 AM, B222 said:

How to tell the difference between satisfied action, and dissatisfied, excessive wanting?

They feel different. They should light you up, energize you and make you feel excited. Passionate creative artists and inventors are excellent examples of this. 

On 5/14/2022 at 6:33 AM, B222 said:

He also says “you will always be looking for something else that promises greater fulfilment, that promises to make your incomplete sense of self complete and fill that sense of lack you feel within” but isn’t the act of carrying out ‘souls urge’ so to speak, fulfilling in itself. Like the saying “it’s the journey, not the destination”? Is it possible to feel completely satisfied while wanting more?

Yes it is. You can be content and still eager and excited for more. 

Be careful adopting distorted beliefs about desire. Desire is the fuel for creativity and creation.