How to know you are not deluding yourself?

[Someone here]

Let's sat you awakened to infinity or infinite love or spiritual solipsism....how to make sure you are right? How to know you are not deluded? Basically I'm asking what anchors all human knowledge and insights? How do we know anything at all is a tangent question. 

Some might say "direct experience "..but what if direct experience is fooling us ? After all direct experience does indeed fool us every night when we are sleeping (dreams)....so who's to say that your insight from direct experience is not a deception? 

Hope my question is clear .

Any pointers appreciated ? 

Edited May 13, 2022 by Someone here

[Blackhawk]

I think you can't know.

You might think that you know, but you could be wrong/deluded anyway.

A bunch of people here will say stuff about how they know, but I don't think they know, they only think they know.

Edited May 13, 2022 by Blackhawk

[The0Self]

There is no knowing. The only doubtless knowing is no knowing at all, it’s just absolute truth. And all untruth is thought based. So a huge amount of doubts and false beliefs can be resolved by just ignoring all thought — ignoring anything that can be thought or described. As soon as a thought is seen as such, that’s all that needs to be done... and if one does not complete the thought, and they do that with all subsequent thoughts, the absolute doubtless shines, and it’s so obvious it needs no defense.

[r0ckyreed]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

How to know you are not deluded?

By having an awakening to what is true. When you have a true awakening, there isn’t any doubt in your mind. If there is doubt, then you know you have to go deeper.

But beyond spirituality, you have to cross-reference from many perspectives to see where your “knowledge” falls in place. 

A good place to start is admitting that you don’t know and could be deluded. Most deluded people assume they know, and people who are wise question if they are deluded. 

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

How do we know anything at all is a tangent question. 

Some might say "direct experience "..but what if direct experience is fooling us ? After all direct experience does indeed fool us every night when we are sleeping (dreams)....so who's to say that your insight from direct experience is not a deception? 

You don’t. Knowing is itself a dualist thing that you need to transcend to reach higher states of mind. Knowing and knower are one. Being is more fundamental.

Direct experience is all you have. Concepts are what is fooling you, which is why we have reality. Your sleeping dreams are as true as this life now. Your mind draws the lines between reality and dreams.

Your direct experience may suggest that the sun rises and sets, but your direct experience can also tell you that the earth is rotating rather than sun moving. You see? You cannot get beyond consciousness. To know if your senses are “deluded” implies using your mind to construct that distinction. How you gonna tell a flat earther that the earth is round? Through direct experience from a certain point of view. That is what you got here. Direct experience from a certain point of view. This requires an alternative state of consciousness.

It takes a raising of consciousness to realize how your mind fools you and deludes you. There are many layers in which your mind fools you. At certain states, it is hard to see the level of deception, which is why Trump and conspiracy theorists (flat earthers, etc.) are at such a low level of consciousness. 

The short answer is consciousness and a raising of it.

Edited May 13, 2022 by r0ckyreed

[The0Self]

1 minute ago, r0ckyreed said:

If there is doubt, then you know you have to go deeper.

Yeah it’s exactly that simple.

[Leo Gura]

Awakening is absolute.

If it's not absolute, it isn't awakening.

And if you doubt the absolute, you will never awaken.

The doubt is actually blocking the realization that you are absolute. As soon as you doubt that you are absolute, you cease being absolute and fall into dreaming.

Your worry should not be that the absolute is a delusion, your worry should be that doubting the absolute is delusion.

[Salvijus]

I think delusion has to do with the ego. Ego interprets reality for it's own survival all the time. All interpretations of reality are distortions of reality. Only a place where there is no judgement, no interpretation, just pure seeing without any interpretation is the true clean perception of reality. It's called samadhi. 

So unless you're in samadhi, your perception is in some way distorted by the ego. If u experience suffering, you are deluded also because only delusions can cause suffering. So the simplest way to tell if you're deluded is. Are u beyond suffering? If no, then you're still in delusion.

 

Edited May 13, 2022 by Salvijus

[Blackhawk]

1 hour ago, r0ckyreed said:

If there is doubt, then you know you have to go deeper.

Lack of doubt doesn't mean anything. Many people are 100% sure about many things, so they don't have doubt, yet it turns out that they are completely wrong.

For example a child can have no doubt that santa claus exists, yet it turns out that he doesn't exist.

Edited May 13, 2022 by Blackhawk

[VeganAwake]

There just isn't a particular something within everything to be called the truth. 

The word deluted insinuates there is also a clear or correct path. That's complete horse shit.

There's no real goal which needs to be achieved or end result which needs to be met.....and so in that sense there is nothing incorrect/correct, wrong/right, bad/good or deluted/pure.

There is only whatever seems to be happening regardless of whether a label of true and false is projected onto it.

It's already complete, it's already freedom!

❤ 

 

 

[Matthew85]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

The doubt is actually blocking the realization that you are absolute. As soon as you doubt that you are absolute, you cease being absolute and fall into dreaming.

Your worry should not be that the absolute is a delusion, your worry should be that doubting the absolute is delusion.

@Leo Gura Very true.

I've had awakenings where I realize "of course I am God" "God is all there is" But the illusion of the limited finite self is so convincing, it's easy to fall back into the dream. But I haven't had as deep and as many awakenings as you. 

[Salvijus]

Only if one achieves a state of zero bias can he observe reality as it is and not as he would like it to be. All bias is essentially a distortion of reality to suit your personal agenda and therefore a fake version of reality, aka delusion. To reach zero bias state either ego has to be trancendended or dissolved. Maybe there are some other ways also idk. 

Edited May 13, 2022 by Salvijus

[Roy]

Who cares if you're deluded or become deluded. It's not a big deal, everyone is doing it in their own way anyways. As long as you're not actively hurting yourself or anybody, and the world isn't worse off because of you. Then what is there to worry about?

"Delusion" doesn't even exist or that accurate a term in my opinion. There are just perspectives that are relative to other perspectives.

Heck if you aren't becoming deluded here or there I don't think you're really trying. It's a symptom of attempting to make progress and change. It's ok to misstep (just don't fall off a cliff).

[Tristan12]

@The0Self How do you know that when you have an awakening, what you realize is more true than what you perceive in your regular sober state of consciousness? I was thinking and I guess if I perceived my reality to be real and physical, that would be a thought, and even though things seem real, there is nothing in my direct experience that actually proves that reality is physically real and not a dream, and so without any thoughts, in a regular sober state, reality just feels like a question mark, like I don't really know what I'm looking at. Because of that there's no contradiction if I suddenly become conscious that reality is a dream.

I still feel sort of uncertain about this, in the sense that what if I am deluded, or if i only see reality as a question mark because my consciousness is already raised and maybe a materialist wouldn't, but I guess if I remember that direct experience is absolute, and it's just thoughts that delude me, then whatever I perceive in my direct experience is what's true, and if I don't know what it is while in a sober state, then that's just what it is right now.

Do you have anything to add?

[Vincent S]

3 hours ago, Roy said:

Who cares if you're deluded or become deluded. It's not a big deal, everyone is doing it in their own way anyways. As long as you're not actively hurting yourself or anybody, and the world isn't worse off because of you. Then what is there to worry about?

"Delusion" doesn't even exist or that accurate a term in my opinion. There are just perspectives that are relative to other perspectives.

Heck if you aren't becoming deluded here or there I don't think you're really trying. It's a symptom of attempting to make progress and change. It's ok to misstep (just don't fall off a cliff).

This ??
 
Don’t stop. Trust in the process.  
Cease your imaginary control and your resistance towards Truth.

[Breakingthewall]

8 hours ago, Someone here said:

solipsism....how to make sure you are right? How to know you are not deluded?

There is no difference if you are right or not, in delusion or reality. There is only more fragmentation or less fragmentation. No fragmentation is the absolute, it's the truth, there is no doubt. But ego is the truth too, but fragmented. Everything is the truth. you simply have to see it. for this you have to be the absolute, and the fragmented mind, repeatedly. Pass from one to other. then you understand

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Tristan12 said:

@The0Self How do you know that when you have an awakening, what you realize is more true than what you perceive in your regular sober state of consciousness? I was thinking and I guess if I perceived my reality to be real and physical, that would be a thought, and even though things seem real, there is nothing in my direct experience that actually proves that reality is physically real and not a dream, and so without any thoughts, in a regular sober state, reality just feels like a question mark, like I don't really know what I'm looking at. Because of that there's no contradiction if I suddenly become conscious that reality is a dream.

I still feel sort of uncertain about this, in the sense that what if I am deluded, or if i only see reality as a question mark because my consciousness is already raised and maybe a materialist wouldn't, but I guess if I remember that direct experience is absolute, and it's just thoughts that delude me, then whatever I perceive in my direct experience is what's true, and if I don't know what it is while in a sober state, then that's just what it is right now.

Do you have anything to add?

That's not awakening. That's speculation and thought.

Awakening requires a 100% absolute consciousness that your consciousness is all there could ever be.

You don't understand yet that nothing can exist outside of you. Once you get it, it's so fucking obvious. More obvious than 1 = 1.

[Gesundheit2]

Lol.

[LSD-Rumi]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

And if you doubt the absolute, you will never awaken.

I think this is the most important part of all spiritual work, to change the tuning of your mind from trusting the ego and its arguments to trusting the Truth.

[Leo Gura]

It's not a function of faith or trust. You just need to understand/become conscious of what Absolute is.

You have to really fucking grok Absoluteness. It's absolutely Absolute. Crack that nut until it destroys your whole relative worldview. When you finally crack it, the Absolute will shine through your eyes like light from the center of the sun.

Absolute Radiant Infinite Eternal Consciousness. GOD! That's you.

[ZenAlex]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Awakening is absolute.

If it's not absolute, it isn't awakening.

And if you doubt the absolute, you will never awaken.

The doubt is actually blocking the realization that you are absolute. As soon as you doubt that you are absolute, you cease being absolute and fall into dreaming.

Your worry should not be that the absolute is a delusion, your worry should be that doubting the absolute is delusion.

Just because you have no doubts doesn't mean you're not delusional.