What is the universe expanding inside of ?

[Someone here]

It seems this question has no solution. Scientists say that since the Big Bang, the universe has been expanding. Okay I can buy that one. But then the question turns on inside of what? Another universe possibly? Or nothingness? 

[Leo Gura]

Your mind is imagining a universe.

[_Archangel_]

@Someone here Are You the same one who claims to have awakened to Absolute Solipsism?
 

[Someone here]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Your mind is imagining a universe.

4 minutes ago, _Archangel_ said:

@Someone here Are You the same one who claims to have awakened to Absolute Solipsism?
 

Yup.

[Carl-Richard]

You're looking for an edge. Do you see the infinite regression?

[Someone here]

@Carl-Richard it might be infinite regress. Maybe that's a feature not a bug.

The problem with my question is I'm imagining something from my own known experience – say an inflating balloon – and asking the seeming reasonable: “What’s outside the ballon?” from the vantage point of being outside the balloon and being able to see it’s a balloon.

we know, and this is what we mean by the expansion of the universe, is that, on average, every galaxy is getting increasingly far away from every other galaxy, at an increasing rate, with no central point. This does not mean that, at any local level, space-time is “stretching” like a rubber sheet (a common misunderstanding), nor does it mean that at local scales stars and galaxies can’t still fly into each other. I might be mistaken. We are pretty primitive in our understanding of the universe. 

[_Archangel_]

@Someone here Then you should know that space has no limits. there is no outside, unless you think it into existence. the baloon is infinitly big.
As to why it seems to be expanding, i think it has to do with the fact that the evolution  and awakening of the Microcosm is deeply interlinked with the one of the Macrocosm (Universe). A growh in self-comprehension of the first results in the "physical" growh of the second. But again this is still a mechanic inside the dream. You should ask this question to some interstellar alien race.

[Someone here]

6 minutes ago, _Archangel_ said:

@Someone here Then you should know that space has no limits. there is no outside, unless you think it into existence. the baloon is infinitly big.
As to why it seems to be expanding, i think it has to do with the fact that the evolution  and awakening of the Microcosm is deeply interlinked with the one of the Macrocosm (Universe). A growh in self-comprehension of the first results in the "physical" growh of the second. But again this is still a mechanic inside the dream. You should ask this question to some interstellar alien race.

So are you saying that The universe is everything, so it isn't expanding into anything. It's just expanding. All of the galaxies in the universe are moving away from each other, and every region of space is being stretched, but there's no center they're expanding from and no outer edge to expand into anything else? 

[Federico del pueblo]

@Someone here

If you want to look at this from a physical pov probably both of us don't really have sufficient physical education to wrap our minds about this stuff...

I mean, time, space and matter are so interconnected that we probably can't even imagine what could be outside of the "space" that contains the physical universe.

Wikipedia says:

"The expansion of the universe is the increase in distance between any two given gravitationally unbound parts of the observable universe with time.[1] It is an intrinsic expansion whereby the scale of space itself changes. The universe does not expand "into" anything and does not require space to exist "outside" it. This expansion involves neither space nor objects in space "moving" in a traditional sense, but rather it is the metric (which governs the size and geometry of spacetime itself) that changes in scale. As the spatial part of the universe's spacetime metric increases in scale, objects become more distant from one another at ever-increasing speeds. To any observer in the universe, it appears that all of space is expanding, and that all but the nearest galaxies (which are bound by gravity) recede at speeds that are proportional to their distance from the observer. While objects within space cannot travel faster than light, this limitation does not apply to the effects of changes in the metric itself.[notes 1] Objects that recede beyond the cosmic event horizon will eventually become unobservable, as no new light from them will be capable of overcoming the universe's expansion, limiting the size of our observable universe."

So maybe there isn't even space where there is no matter?! I don't know ?

[thisintegrated]

What Leo said.  I don't know why this thread didn't die the moment Leo explained it all.  It's that simple.

[_Archangel_]

12 minutes ago, Someone here said:

All of the galaxies in the universe are moving away from each other

@Someone here Scientist: literally discover this 
Also scientist: so space is expanding hihi

As we know space is not expanding, space is infinite. What seems to be is increasing is the distance between objects(galaxies).

 

45 minutes ago, Someone here said:

so it isn't expanding into anything. It's just expanding.

It's like a strange loop. it's seems to be expanding(when you have atleast 2 objects that you can measure from/to), but  it isn't at the same time because it doen't have anything to expand into, being already infinite.
So we can conclude that from a finite POV (space-time)it is expanding, and from an Absolute NO-POV it isn't.
 

[Someone here]

@Federico del pueblo

I understand the expansion of the universe as actually an increase in the ratio of space to matter. Is this a correct understanding? Otherwise, I don't understand how an infinite structure can expand.

[Someone here]

@_Archangel_ @Federico del pueblo

If you assume the universe is finite in size, something(matter) would have to be present to fill in the empty space surrounding the entire universe or else it would be just more empty space.

Let me explain what I mean. A room is finite in size because when you get to a certain point that the walls, floor, and ceiling stop you. So if a universe is finite, it would have to have some equivalent to walls, to keep it the same size and finite and/or to constitute an end. If space ends at some point because nothing can go any further, like if we were inside of an incomprehensibley large hollow sphere and traveled to the end of space and found the end of the universe, something would still be on the other side of whatever the end of the was. Infinity is not a hard concept at all and is really the only possibility if you think a about it.. Infinite can't expand. It's like a child saying infinite plus one. Only now its college educated grown men now and all the logic in the world wont stop them from trying to make it make sense. The universe is definitely infinite, anyone can observe that by looking up at the night sky. We dont live inside of a cosmic domicile with limited space. So how can it be Infinite and expand at the same time ?

[_Archangel_]

I think this explain well:
Seems to be expanding, top.
Seems to be contracting, bottom. One day we will  probably discover that in some places of the universe space is eaten up
Actuality: not expantion nor contraction, infinity
just notice how the inside and outside of the structure is created by the illusory movements of distruction and                     creation

 

Edited May 14, 2022 by _Archangel_

[_Archangel_]

@Someone here Sorry, i posted the above without looking at your reply first.

You are absolutly right.
I just was just saying that it seams to be expanding from a limited pov. Every pov exist in the illusion of space-time.
No Pov, no space.time, no distance, no expansion.

Of course, as you and i have said, there is no real expansion.
 

Edited May 14, 2022 by _Archangel_

[Federico del pueblo]

1 hour ago, thisintegrated said:

What Leo said.  I don't know why this thread didn't die the moment Leo explained it all.  It's that simple.

Then what is my mind imagining the universe to be expanding into? ?

Btw, the thread didn't die the moment Leo explained it all, because you imagined the thread to continue, it's that simple ?

[Federico del pueblo]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

Let me explain what I mean. A room is finite in size because when you get to a certain point that the walls, floor, and ceiling stop you. So if a universe is finite, it would have to have some equivalent to walls, to keep it the same size and finite and/or to constitute an end. If space ends at some point because nothing can go any further, like if we were inside of an incomprehensibley large hollow sphere and traveled to the end of space and found the end of the universe, something would still be on the other side of whatever the end of the was. Infinity is not a hard concept at all and is really the only possibility if you think a about it.. Infinite can't expand. It's like a child saying infinite plus one. Only now its college educated grown men now and all the logic in the world wont stop them from trying to make it make sense. The universe is definitely infinite, anyone can observe that by looking up at the night sky. We dont live inside of a cosmic domicile with limited space. So how can it be Infinite and expand at the same time ?

I don't imagine the universe to be finite like a room (but I also just have no fucking idea, really :), I just meant that maybe the space "occupied by matter" might be finite, but always expanding in all directions and that at some point after the last planet or stardust or whatever (the one that is the farthest away from "us") there might just be endless space or nothingness that continues infinitely in which the matter could then expand.

But that's probably just plain wrong ?

[thisintegrated]

17 minutes ago, Federico del pueblo said:

Then what is my mind imagining the universe to be expanding into? ?

Btw, the thread didn't die the moment Leo explained it all, because you imagined the thread to continue, it's that simple ?

It's not expanding.  All that exists is your experience.  

[Happy Lizard]

21 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Your mind is imagining a universe.

1 hour ago, thisintegrated said:

What Leo said.  I don't know why this thread didn't die the moment Leo explained it all.  It's that simple.

Unpack this ? The whole universe is not actually there? 

I doesn’t help to be straight to the point when theres a lot of room for interpretation; what if i’m imagining a flat earth? Which imagination would be more true?
 

[thisintegrated]

11 minutes ago, Happy Lizard said:

Unpack this ? The whole universe is not actually there? 

I doesn’t help to be straight to the point when theres a lot of room for interpretation; what if i’m imagining a flat earth? Which imagination would be more true?
 

There's just your experience.  The earth isn't even a sphere, there is no earth.  There's just your experience, which plays out in accordance with whatever's logical/probable.

Edited May 14, 2022 by thisintegrated