What was our life expectancy in nature?

[Nivsch]

I just had a conversation with my mom when I said I don't need to clean the dust on a fruit on the tree we have in our garden (100% organic obviously), and she said "You have to wash it!".

I then said that in nature we didnt wash the fruits. 

and then she said "In nature people lived until age 40".

Why people don't trust nature?

Ok thats true that the technology helped a lot to fight diseases and provide emergency treatments which are very important.

But still, why people think that in nature we couldn't reach age 90 from time to time?

This is an issue I want know better.

Beyond all this it pisses me off that familiy members/friends are so discredit nature.

Isn't it low consciousness to discredit nature intelligence?

What do you think?

Edited May 12, 2022 by Nivsch

[integral]

What exactly is she cleaning off the fruit? 

[undeather]

Does nature look particulary peaceful to you? 
Nature is insanely brutal und doesnt care about your survival. You do. 
Thats why you should wash your vegetables. 

[Nivsch]

2 hours ago, integral said:

What exactly is she cleaning off the fruit? 

From dust

[Nivsch]

28 minutes ago, undeather said:

Does nature look particulary peaceful to you? 
Nature is insanely brutal und doesnt care about your survival. You do. 
Thats why you should wash your vegetables. 

This is too extreme and paranoid.

 this is a fucking fruit from a tree.

[undeather]

10 hours ago, Nivsch said:

This is too extreme and paranoid.

 this is a fucking fruit from a tree.

Ok, then let me give you a different perspective.

Outdoor dust is usually made up of soil particles, pollen, vehicular matter (like exhaust or tire particles), or even insect follicles or parts. Depending on where you live, you could add a solid portion of different man-made pollutants to that mix. That ranges from heavy metals to different volatile organic compounds and fertilizer remnants. 

You are not going to die if you eat an unwashed fruit. 
Its propably not going to be a huge problem, even if you do it in the long run. 
On the one hand it IS paranoid to think so. 

However, just going by what we actually know about air-quality and pollution-indices, washing your fruit/vegetables is always a good idea. 
Just to be safe. 

If we would live in a pre-industrial era, my answer would be a different one. 
 

[Carl-Richard]

On 12.5.2022 at 5:56 PM, Nivsch said:

Why people don't trust nature?

The knowledge of the shaman did not come from trust, but from thousands of years of investigation and trial and error.

 

On 12.5.2022 at 5:56 PM, Nivsch said:

But still, why people think that in nature we couldn't reach age 90 from time to time?

Evolution (nature) doesn't care about longevity. It cares about survival and reproduction. Longevity is a modern invention, which is fundamentally built on an unsustainable depletion of resources (it's "anti-nature"). In a sense, we're like vampires who drain the life from nature through our exploitation of it.

[Ulax]

Cos generally, when we lived in a state of nature, as Hobbes said, Life was nasty, brutish and short.

Sure. There are some good parts to nature, a lot we can get in touch with.

Like @Carl-Richard says above, its about filtering through nature and finding what works and what doesn't.

You get a cut on your leg a few thousand years ago, and you can't trust nature. Nature will fuck you.

I also think 40 is too high an age range, I'd put it in the 20s.

In a large sense, generally everything that exists today exists as a means of surviving and adapting to nature.

Good question tho

[Carl-Richard]

3 minutes ago, Ulax said:

I also think 40 is too high an age range, I'd put it in the 20s.

Those low averages only happen when you account for infant and child deaths. People usually lived to 40-50 in pre-modern societies.

[Ulax]

@Carl-Richard What do you mean by pre-modern?

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Ulax said:

@Carl-Richard What do you mean by pre-modern?

No modern medicine, sanitation, electricity etc. I'm not sure if pre-agricultural societies (i.e. Purple tribes) had even lower life expectancy on average than say Red feudal empires. 

[Ulax]

@Carl-Richard Fairs dude. I looked it up and you're right.

Wild

[ZenAlex]

I really don't understand what people mean by "trust nature". Everything is natural, including you thinking twice about what you're doing and put precautions in place to avoid the damage certain parts of nature can do to you.

[Ulax]

@ZenAlex nice point

[Nivsch]

On 13.5.2022 at 9:19 AM, undeather said:

Ok, then let me give you a different perspective.

Outdoor dust is usually made up of soil particles, pollen, vehicular matter (like exhaust or tire particles), or even insect follicles or parts. Depending on where you live, you could add a solid portion of different man-made pollutants to that mix. That ranges from heavy metals to different volatile organic compounds and fertilizer remnants. 

You are not going to die if you eat an unwashed fruit. 
Its propably not going to be a huge problem, even if you do it in the long run. 
On the one hand it IS paranoid to think so. 

However, just going by what we actually know about air-quality and pollution-indices, washing your fruit/vegetables is always a good idea. 
Just to be safe. 

If we would live in a pre-industrial era, my answer would be a different one. 
 

Ok this makes sense to me i agree.

But why you said in your first comment nature is the problem? I mean that It seemed to me that you connected between the need to wash the fruit and the brutality of nature.

Edited May 14, 2022 by Nivsch

[undeather]

27 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Ok this makes sense to me i agree.

But why you said in your first comment nature is the problem? I mean that It seemed to me that you connected between the need to wash the fruit and the brutality of nature.

There is nothing wrong with nature and I never said otherwise. 
However, its just a truism that there is a certain amount of indifference in natures essence when it comes to "your" survival or wellbeing.
People are dying from horrible bacterial infections every day and all around the world.
Your backyard is, on a microscopic level, a bloodbath. 
Thats not paranoid, thats how it is  Thats nature as well! 

Trusting in the "intelligence of nature" is just such a stage green thing to say. 
I mean, it just means nothing - because first of all, you ARE part of nature and you can never be "out" of its intelligence. 

Not washing your food is a bit like saying that "Its better to not get the vaccine because  its unnatural".
Well, thats just a really stupid statement on so many levels - you get that?
Now of course there is nuance to everything I just said, but I hope you get what I wanted to convey.