The ego is fine. Removing the ego is the wrong goal.

[Nivsch]

The ego doesn't just point to the everyday material desires, but also to our most deep and profound of our authentic-self desires, which many of them are subconscious. Not just about survival, physical and psychological, but much more than that.

I think the whole point of the spiritual journey is to be more and more connected to our authentic self and thats have to be done mainly through processing our desires, emotions and thoughs. 

The mind is already intelligent enough. Why do we need to do things against his natural tendency? It doesnt mean not do to meditation or yoga but they are not the main path in my opinion.

The main path is to already go WITH the non-linear messages of the mind. Yes, it is not easy, and it will require you to face your fears and shadows and keep listening to your subconscious messages, but what is more direct than that? This is the most direct form can ever be.

Everything else can also be very helpful and valid an provide great insights from time to time, but cannot replace the main and most direct path.

The "Dark night" as I see it (you do not have to agree of course) is not just the ego fights back to "prevent us from being enlightened" but a wise sign from our subconscious mind we do something wrong and are too much against him.

I had hundreds if not 1000-2000 hours or more of contemplating about my mental 'condition' (anxiety and 'ocd') and last winter I had a breakthrough that improved greatly my situation and thats occured only after I started to drop away the condition term and treat it as a process of symptoms appearing for solid reasons. 

Thats why I think today that the term "mental illness" will be grasped as a dark ages term in the future and its a misleading term.

Yes yes yes of course... genetics are highly important in determine the general structure of the thoughs and emotions but a structure does not equal suffering or problem. Much more other factors (events, traumas, bad nutrition, heavy metals, drugs, nutrotional deficiencies, and more) are required to make the stracture become "on steroids", affect the volume of the signal of the symptoms and turn it into a problem.

But the original source of the symptoms is highly intelligent and the path to enlightment must go through them.

BTW are there Israelis here? ??

I will really love to know more Israelis in this community so if you are I would like to make contact with you. Of course everyone else too, but I mention Israelis because I really want to maintain a more day to day physicall (to actually meet and talk) connection of more people who are into spirituality and this is more realistic and accessible for me in my country.

 

Edited May 12, 2022 by Nivsch

[Kksd74628]

@Nivsch

Many people don't understand what egoless state really means. You will not lose your desires, but more like you don't see them anymore as things that need to be done. Of course you could just start thinking that all spiritual people including me are trying to trick you to the worst life possible, but that is called as a madness. We don't teach these things for no reason and actually at least I have my own direct experience of a state without ego and it is awesome. There is no "need" to do anything. You are just terrifying yourself and that's it.

-joNi-

[gettoefl]

you're either ego or you're god so question is can you be god and live in this incarnation ... mystics say this is achievable and is the point of life

ego undergoes tons of awakenings to reach god and this is the result of doing the spiritual work

leo identifies many different awakenings in his vids for example awakening to love awakening to oneness awakening to infinity ... god seems to be the ultimate awakening

transforming ego is a life long process

[Nivsch]

@Kksd74628 If you want long term egoless/less egoig state even then I think that the right way is to go with him and his instructions and not against.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

@gettoefl Why not the other possibility which is to be as connected as you can to your ego most profound messages and desires? Why not to go with him?

 

Edited May 12, 2022 by Nivsch

[gettoefl]

Just now, Nivsch said:

@gettoefl Why not the other possibility which is to be as connected as you can to your ego most profound messages and desires? Why not to flow with him?

 

yes that is a fine thing ... your ego is the suit of clothes you have to face your fellow humans with ... make sure it is pressed clean trendy well fitting

working on yourself is seeing the treasure that you have within and taking maximum advantage ... having done this one can live one's best life

[Kksd74628]

@Nivsch

If the point is to see why there is no ego then should you listen to ego's defense mechanisms why for example you are doing wrong when you get dark night of the soul? Dark night of the soul happens, because it is seen that this is radical stuff and then little ego gets fearful, because it thinks that it is doing something wrong. Of course losing ego feels horrible, if your mind is filled up with wrong assumptions and weird thought patters of what will happen. Ego wants to eat candies everyday; why not listen this instruction?

[Carl-Richard]

You're not removing anything.

[Nivsch]

2 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

You're not removing anything.

I mean that also the action of trying to weaken/dissolve the ego is also wrong. 

Edited May 12, 2022 by Nivsch

[jimwell]

22 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

I mean that also the action of trying to weaken/dissolve the ego is also wrong. 

Love your ego to death. And also learn to love truth, goodness, and beauty. That's what matters because that's what makes you spiritual. 

[Nivsch]

4 hours ago, Kksd74628 said:

@Nivsch

If the point is to see why there is no ego then should you listen to ego's defense mechanisms why for example you are doing wrong when you get dark night of the soul? Dark night of the soul happens, because it is seen that this is radical stuff and then little ego gets fearful, because it thinks that it is doing something wrong. Of course losing ego feels horrible, if your mind is filled up with wrong assumptions and weird thought patters of what will happen. Ego wants to eat candies everyday; why not listen this instruction?

I disagree. Ego is not just a survival mechanism that opposed to enlightment but also rooted in the so to speak higher self.

Every anxiety/depression/other mental symptom will first of all wants you to survive for obvious reasons of responding as fast as possible, but it also has a more profound reason one level deeper rooted in your authentic self wants, but the trick is that it is less trivial to see the subconsciois reason.

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

I mean that also the action of trying to weaken/dissolve the ego is also wrong. 

Self-transcendence does not come through a weakening of the organism. It comes through the mastery of all domains of life.

[Kksd74628]

@Nivsch

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

Ego is not just a survival mechanism that opposed to enlightment but also rooted in the so to speak higher self.

That sounds that you want to take ego to the "highest" levels and that will not work. From my perspective it seems that the your survival mechanism is so strong that it denies being survival mechanism or otherwise it would be deleted. What do you say about "my" state then, because there is no sense of self, sense of perceiver or sense of ego and "I" am as happy as "I" could. I don't understand how you can say that removing ego is wrong goal, because at least for "me" it gave massive happiness.

[ll Ontology ll]

@Nivsch Being obsessed with “mind, ego or subconscious” isn’t going to get someone to the next level in my opinion. And there aren’t any levels when we’re on the wrong hierarchy, of words which like mind and ego are from my perspective. For me I go for words like heart, being, communication, brain and consciousness. “Mind” is such a weird term to me, I get it, but it just feels like someone is simply rolling around in the mud or shuffling cards to get something new rather than changing the deck completely.

[ll Ontology ll]

Yeah I feel that mind is pure delusion. The same with ego, they seem isomorphic to me. As soon as we get caught in mind, we get caught in the delusions produced by consciousness or just become more susceptible to them. Consciousness, brain and awareness are suitable for resolving the nexus that is produced by them combined with heart.  

Unless someone wishes to take a crack at seeing where it fits? To me it genuinely feels like a weakness, like a false safety measure because we were told throughout our lives that Santa was real so it felt good to believe it and from here we personalised it like we personalised this idea of mind, much worse, minds.

 

Edited May 13, 2022 by ll Ontology ll

[ll Ontology ll]

Here’s one for you: Mind is (simply) consciousness turning against itself.

[gettoefl]

15 hours ago, Kksd74628 said:

@Nivsch

That sounds that you want to take ego to the "highest" levels and that will not work. From my perspective it seems that the your survival mechanism is so strong that it denies being survival mechanism or otherwise it would be deleted. What do you say about "my" state then, because there is no sense of self, sense of perceiver or sense of ego and "I" am as happy as "I" could. I don't understand how you can say that removing ego is wrong goal, because at least for "me" it gave massive happiness.

i say ego is needed for the people in your life, they don't want to interact with a robot, the presentation you make is your ego, if you do this consciously ego is well controlled, you are just entertaining folks, when i think of spiritual teachers they all have some eccentricity which makes them stand out

for most people the ego runs their life and they are not even aware of it, they think ego is who they are, this needs to be understood and remedied 

another point is the difference between desire and longing ... desire is wanting what is not but if the desire is a longing for awakening this is okay ... in short want only the supreme, you can't do anything to awaken but you can get up sit on your mat and allow the supreme to mould the clay

[Kksd74628]

@gettoefl

When it is understood that there is no ego everything will happen automatically without no one in control. Of course the body will continue having its "personality", but that is not you. "You" should also understand that, because there are no "other" people you already are interracting with "robots" in a sense. You make it sound like awakening is the most important thing and all that make you go to this direction is good, but the thing is that being happy is even greater "desire".

[gettoefl]

2 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

@gettoefl

When it is understood that there is no ego everything will happen automatically without no one in control. Of course the body will continue having its "personality", but that is not you. "You" should also understand that, because there are no "other" people you already are interracting with "robots" in a sense. You make it sound like awakening is the most important thing and all that make you go to this direction is good, but the thing is that being happy is even greater "desire".

there is one happy and that is awareness namely living your true nature, nothing else does compare

the term ego is useful to communicate to those stuck in it whilst knowing that ego is awareness imagining it is limited

 

 

[Kksd74628]

@gettoefl

That is just some theory you are trying to speak to me, but I am living it. As "I" said there is no sense of self, sense of perceiver or sense of ego left. I don't understand how someone could say that having ego is good thing if at least for me it is complete opposite. Less ego you have the more you will start to be rather than do and that's why it's called as inner being instead of inner doer. Still even saying that you are being is wrong, because there isn't even that.