Discussion: Should We Allow Sourcing?

[Loving Radiance]

@Leo Gura Ask your lawyer. If it's a green light, then we can test things. There is always the option to shut things down.

[MsNobody]

@Leo Gura any updates here Leo? 

[RMQualtrough]

On 07/05/2022 at 9:52 PM, Leo Gura said:

I haven mulling over our no-sourcing policy. Should we allow some degree of sourcing for psychedelics since their legality varies from country to country and region to region? I don't really like the idea that discussion of sourcing should be prohibited when some of these substances/chemicals are legal around the world and we have a global audience.

This is just a discussion. No promises yet.

You only need to mention d*rk.fail.

People can find what they want from there.

[Elisabeth]

I'd be worried about actualised.org getting more easily banned/censored in some parts of the world. 

[reves]

I think it would be great to have a place that we can trust to share sources, which could be the case of actualized.org. But I also think that we are not that mature yet as a global society and it could cause more harm than good and also probably cause troubles to actualized.org and Leo.

 

[Danioover9000]

   You know what @Leo Gura , let's start a poll about wether we should allow sourcing here. It might look interesting.

   I'm against it as it's another reason to attack this place.

[mmKay]

@Danioover9000 raw number have very little importance. What's important are very inteligent and nuanced arguments for and against. 

[Danioover9000]

@mmKay

17 hours ago, mmKay said:

@Danioover9000 raw number have very little importance. What's important are very inteligent and nuanced arguments for and against. 

   Actually the opposite. Numbers give a good, educated measure for how approximately it's good or bad.

[mmKay]

20 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@mmKay

   Actually the opposite. Numbers give a good, educated measure for how approximately it's good or bad.

Well, both give certain value. I'd rather listen to arguments and contemplate them rather than going with what the most popular opinion is. 

[Danioover9000]

@mmKay

11 minutes ago, mmKay said:

Well, both give certain value. I'd rather listen to arguments and contemplate them rather than going with what the most popular opinion is. 

   I mean, if you really don't like polls, don't participate in a democracy and vote, if you hate polls that much.

[GromHellScream]

Seriously Hard to cut through the noise on reddit / trust pilot. 

Would be great to have some honest opinions of members with lots of karma here. 

[Asayake]

30 minutes ago, Aleister Crowleyy said:

Dm me on this haha. 

Last year I tried to order Erythroxylum coca like a dumbass and customs took it and it never came to my house. Some things your better off getting seeds or spores for.

Did you get in trouble with police or did they just seize it and say nothing?

[ValiantSalvatore]

I dunno what to completely think about this subject. I am going to add some thoughts that might aid the decision making process. As well as add my own experience

I mostly used the dark net and real life to gain access to stuff so far. The site I used was taken down by some international security agency (like FBI). I used it at the time to buy legal substances. As I distrusted clear net sites, as they seemed to be fake and not professional enough. I mainly received LSD derivates that were legal during that time. Now I found at least one clear net site, that would give me access to certain subtances. I already test ordered other stuff that arrived.

Basically I used the clear net and the dark net to gain access as well as also offline for example in person. 

Overall I'd say if Leo has trusted members I would just open a list where people have access to the sites. The most important thing would be able to implement it and work with psychedelics as a tool. Constant discussions about sourcing could corrupt the whole process with fake information, sites, trolls, scammers etc. 

If it would be regulated by mods and the content of the websites approves Leo's standard of what he teaches. For example would you source a dark net site that includes the offer for people to buy herion? I would include a list of websites that seem to cause the least harm possible here for people as information is easily abused and turned against etc. At the sametime people are responsible for their actions and the dark net site that sells herion might has a higher level of security then the clear net site. So there might be a benefit of listing it or one substance is legal that is illegal in another country. 

I see the overall issue with security and people not going crazy from consuming the substance. If there are well-known somewhat safe places (there will always be a risk imo). 

I would be for a list of sites that explains security measures, explains legality to some extend, as well as has reviews. I can only speak for the dark net that it was suprisingly professional. Although there are limits. I never explored the option fully. 

The good thing about constant sourcing would be having updates on legality statuses, website takedowns, exposing scammers etc. The negative thing is some would test it in good faith and get scammed. I'd recommend making a list of sites where you can have access to stuff and explain an overall policy on how, why and what is done with the information made available on these sites So you'd have the abillity to explore and find out for yourself. Yet, sort of as an authority not recommend buying from places, yet somehow ressources have to be gathered, so websites etc. Have to be explored in some sense and having a list from "seasoned psychonauts" would make the whole ordeal a lot more easier. Then to look up how many eyes are spying on my ass. 

Then to review sources once a year or so. You could also make a list with the worst sites possible to get psyches on. Basically an anti-sourcing list never get from these sites or so. So you'd also add clarity and transparency to the entire process. If people would really then use these sites, they'd be close to unsoundness of mind.

In terms of image and repute I am unsure how pro-sourcing would affect the organisation etc.  There will always be the one person who does something stupid and people love to complain so. I really do not know.

Edited June 13, 2022 by ValiantSalvatore

[BeachBliss]

On 5/9/2022 at 3:55 PM, The0Self said:

Rare Chems (heard about this as well)

That website got hacked in early May and has been defunct ever since.  Which really sucks because they were great, been around for 10 years, and even sold MALT.  

 

I'd be concerned about exposing Actualized.org to liability.  If someone's too lazy to do the research, there's a good chance they'll be too lazy to do psychedelics responsibly.  Leo gets blamed for all kinds of bs.  Don't want to add to the pile.  

In countries where psychedelics are legal, finding out where to buy them is pretty easy.  Just hop on Reddit.  Read reviews of companies.  Don't just search for a specific substance.  Look at different communities devoted to "research chemicals" or "mail order mushrooms" and so forth.  Some companies even have accounts with multi-year track records where they talk to customers.  I've found a bunch of good places that way.  

 

15 hours ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

You could also make a list with the worst sites possible to get psyches on. Basically an anti-sourcing list never get from these sites or so.

An anti-sourcing list would be a good idea.

Edited June 14, 2022 by BeachBliss

[Thanks]

Probably it would backfire in ways we still don't grasp yet. I love the idea but I doubt that the implementation of sourcing in Actualized.org would have a beneficial impact. Having said that, some kind of very restricted third party access (not directly from this page), to another place where sourcing can be debated/posted/checked would be optimal if you want to add this value to your project. Personally, I think it's crucial to offer this high quality possibility, however a lot of careful consideration has to go into it.

[bobbyward]

I'm definitely for allowing it. I have done tons of phycadelics, but can't find 5 meo malt anywhere 

[Jannes]

For me in Germany I can get magic truffles legally and the most recent form of lsd as well. But for dmt, 5meo-dmt and 5meo-malt it’s really hard. Dmt you can make yourself although I haven’t succeeded yet but for the other two… I would have to make some really complicated plans to get them plus I could do something wrong on accident and get cought which is a big fear of mine. So I would really benefit from it.

But I also want to feel safe and unobserved in this forum.

Maybe somebody could create another simple website where we can talk about it? If that doesn’t work and we get into legal troubles we could just burn that ship.. 
Some dealers talk about their deals in Clash of Clans ?. But honestly if we really want to make sure that we don’t want to get into legal troubles that would be an option.

Edited June 28, 2022 by Jannes

[something_else]

On 12/06/2022 at 3:38 PM, Asayake said:

Did you get in trouble with police or did they just seize it and say nothing?

Typically it isn’t worth the effort for them to follow up on the destination of the package, unless you’re ordering dealer quantities

Its also I would imagine very rare that your package will get intercepted if it’s not passing through any international borders

If they do contact you, you deny placing the order or knowing anything about it

I won’t give much more instruction, all I’ll do is say make sure you do a lot of research and follow all of the best practice security guides for the process no matter how inconvenient they are to you

[vindicated erudite]

On 07/05/2022 at 9:52 PM, Leo Gura said:

I haven mulling over our no-sourcing policy. Should we allow some degree of sourcing for psychedelics since their legality varies from country to country and region to region? I don't really like the idea that discussion of sourcing should be prohibited when some of these substances/chemicals are legal around the world and we have a global audience.

This is just a discussion. No promises yet.

I don't think the policy should be changed.

[Jannes]

Deleted

Edited July 10, 2022 by Jannes