On marriage and having children

[zurew]

26 minutes ago, Someone here said:

And thousands of people take their own life away every year . Do you know that suicide is the 2nd most common cause of death globally every year ?

Yes, but to say that the reason is because they were born, is just way too vague of an explanation for that. Again, If what you say would be true (that non-existence is objectively better, than existence),then why would anyone want to continue their life?  

If what you say would be true, then suicide would be the 1st common cause of death

26 minutes ago, Someone here said:

you are afraid of death you delay your suicide because of fear of a worse situation after death than your current life . That's really all it boils down to .

Why would anyone be afraid of death, if according to you, non-existence is objectively better than existence?

Edited September 11, 2022 by zurew

[Kksd74628]

@Someone here

17 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Do you know that suicide is the 2nd most common cause of death globally every year ?

I don't even know what to say to this. This is not even close to truth .

17 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I'm here specifically focusing on the negativity of it

That's why you get wrong conclusions, because you don't take everything in account. With the same logic I could say that we should stop selling ice cream, because if we just focus to the fact that it costs money, will make people suffer from obesity and there's also chance that it drops to ground and makes you angry. If you want to have great conversation then try to be as holistic as possible or you'll be biased and you'll not cover all important parts. So don't let your own ideologies affect to your thought process in these topics.

17 minutes ago, Someone here said:

there will be less instances of screaming babies in theaters and restaurants

There will be also less theaters and restaurants .

Edited September 11, 2022 by Kksd74628
Typos

[Carl-Richard]

39 minutes ago, Someone here said:

There is no justification for our existences or for imposing existence on new individuals. It's just a fact.

But should you expect humans who were born into an unethical situation to act perfectly ethically?

Edited September 11, 2022 by Carl-Richard

[zurew]

@Someone here I don't know what data you saw about suicide, but it seems what you said about suicide being the 2nd most common cause of death, isn't true.

[Someone here]

30 minutes ago, zurew said:

Why would anyone be afraid of death, if according to you, non-existence is objectively better than existence?

Yes nonexistence is better than existence. But the problem is we are not sure that death =nonexistence.  You might reincarnate as a mouse. Who tf knows ?

 

[Someone here]

29 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

With the same logic I could say that we should stop selling ice cream, because if we just focus to the fact that it costs money, will make people suffer from obesity and there's also chance that it drops to ground and makes you angry. 

There is difference between what you wish for and reality . The reality is there is a whole bunch of stuff that should be banned but isn't..tobacco..alcohol..drugs..porn..sugar ..junk food .and the list goes on.

[Someone here]

30 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

But should you expect humans who were born into an unethical situation to act perfectly ethically?

People are born and their actions are shaped by their genetics, their upbringing,their education etc some will be Noble Prize scientists and some will be criminals . But just the chance that the child's life might go wrong is enough reason to not bring it into this world. 

[Carl-Richard]

1 minute ago, Someone here said:

Yes nonexistence is better than existence. But the problem is we are not sure that death =nonexistence.  You might reincarnate as a mouse. Who tf knows ?

If reincarnation works like an assembly line where souls choose an available body, then your contribution as a single anti-natalist doesn't matter at all. You would have to stop all people from giving birth.

[Someone here]

29 minutes ago, zurew said:

@Someone here I don't know what data you saw about suicide, but it seems what you said about suicide being the 2nd most common cause of death, isn't true.

My bad . Then I take back my words . But also notice that its still a high rate of deaths caused by suicide. 

[zurew]

1 minute ago, Someone here said:

Yes nonexistence is better than existence. But the problem is we are not sure that death =nonexistence.  You might reincarnate as a mouse. Who tf knows ?

If we assume that existence is beyond the physical realm, then your whole position should automatically fall apart, because at that point, we also have to assume that life doesn't start in the physical realm. 

[Someone here]

1 minute ago, Carl-Richard said:

If reincarnation works like an assembly line where souls choose an available body, then your contribution as a single anti-natalist doesn't matter at all. You would have to stop all people from giving birth.

I don't believe in reincarnation. There are no arguments against it as such, but there is a complete lack of evidence for it, and there is also ( at least to my knowledge )no well-known hypothesis about the mechanism by which it could happen.
It would require some kind of soul that would know to travel from a dead body into the body of a fetus or a newborn. Such a thing has never been observed and also seems to defy the laws of physics (e.g. the laws of everything we have ever observed).

Reincarnation is basically just an untestable claim. You can make your own untestable claims over lunch. For it to be taken seriously as a fact of reality, some kind of evidence or at least a detailed description of its workings must be presented.

But if you happen to reincarnate ..then that's bad news .and throws a wrench In this whole antinatalism pipe dream. 

[Someone here]

8 minutes ago, zurew said:

If we assume that existence is beyond the physical realm, then your whole position should automatically fall apart, because at that point, we also have to assume that life doesn't start in the physical realm. 

Yeah but where is your evidence of life after death ?

As far as we can tell ..the body drops dead ..decays and rots in the soil and fuse with everything in reality . Or do you believe in s soul that is separated from the body ?

[Carl-Richard]

3 minutes ago, Someone here said:

It would require some kind of soul that would know to travel from a dead body into the body of a fetus or a newborn. Such a thing has never been observed and also seems to defy the laws of physics (e.g. the laws of everything we have ever observed).

It only requires a person to remember having lived a life as somebody else. We don't know the "mechanism" for how memories are recalled in the first place (you're also assuming a mechanistic universe). I've heard too many people talk about their past lives to discount it.

[zurew]

7 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Yeah but where is your evidence of life after death ?

I don't have any , and I don't need any. You were the one who tried to use reincarnation as a reason for this question: Why would anyone be afraid of death, if according to you, non-existence is objectively better than existence?

You need to find a different answer other than the assumption of reincarnation.

[Carl-Richard]

33 minutes ago, zurew said:

Why would anyone be afraid of death, if according to you, non-existence is objectively better than existence?

It's a double-bind. You're born both afraid of life and death.

[Someone here]

past lives and reincarnation are not real. They are just fiction. There is zero independently verifiable evidence that is beyond reasonable doubt that reincarnation exists. Out of the countless billions of people that have died in human history, there is no such evidence that anyone has come back from the dead. Not one scrap of verifiable evidence. What does that tell you? Reincarnation is just so much half-baked, wishy-washy mysticism that gives a warm and fuzzy, touchy-feely emotional comfort to those who are afraid of death.

Anyways ..let's get back to the main topic now reincarnation is not the topic ..even antinatalism is not the main topic .the  main topic was marriage and having  children. 

[zurew]

22 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

It's a double-bind. You're born both afraid of life and death.

Yes, but if we go with his position (that non-existence is better than existence), then that should necessarily lead to everyone killing themselves.

But thats not the case, so either people don't recognize, that non-existence is better than existence, or the claim isn't true or I don't see something here, that I should.

[Carl-Richard]

Just now, Someone here said:

Reincarnation is just so much half-baked, wishy-washy mysticism that gives a warm and fuzzy, touchy-feely emotional comfort to those who are afraid of death.

I agree, but I still think it exists.

Just think about it: if you go back to the void forever, what stops the universe from birthing a new "you" seemingly out of nothing? After all, that is what happened to us.

[Carl-Richard]

Just now, zurew said:

Yes, but if we go with his position (that non-existence is better than existence), then that should necessarily lead to everyone killing themselves.

But thats not the case, so either people don't recognize, that non-existence is better than existence, or the claim isn't true or I don't see something here, that I should.

There is a threshold of suffering for entering non-existence. Deciding to take your life is probably the most stressful thing you can experience, unless you're completely numb and apathic. It's like how you'll feel better after a workout than before it. Not everybody wants to do the work.

[Someone here]

3 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I agree, but I still think it exists.

Just think about it: if you go back to the void forever, what stops the universe from birthing a new "you" seemingly out of nothing? After all, that is what happened to us.

Remains a probability. Not certain. 

 I mean People have had near-death experiences. Scientists have found that these may be related to physiological changes in the brain as the brain is dying. So some say the experiences people have our like dreams. However, we are material beings. And so one could argue that these experiences are real because they are experienced by people. It’s not like we are ghosts.

The sad reality is that we simply don’t know what awaits us beyond this life. We just don’t. And nobody in the world can tell us. Its a bitter pill to swallow,I know .