The Neurological Correlates of the Jhanas, and Experiencing Dopamine vs Serotonin

[thisintegrated]

4 minutes ago, The0Self said:

Oh no doubt. 5-MeO-DMT can induce states of serenity and intensity way more powerful than heroin (even IV H combined with cocaine; yes I was indeed an addict) and even 2nd jhana.

Therefore.. chemicals can, in theory, explain every emotional state imaginable.  Including all the Jhanas.  In time, we can expect a "Jhana II", and even a "Jhana III" chemical to be released.

[Carl-Richard]

Isn't the Default mode network (or medial frontoparietal network) a better correlate?

[zurew]

3 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

Heroin is very far from the theoretical "best" drug that is possible to create.  Contemporary chemistry is still in the dark ages, and I have no doubt in 1000 years we'll have drugs many times more powerful.  So what we have available today shouldn't be used as a benchmark for what's possible, in terms of chemically induced highs.

Whats your opinion about people who talk about "psychedelics can only do , what you brain is capable of doing. Chemical compounds go and activate already existing brain machinery." (These people are mostly either psychiatrists or gurus like sadghuru)

Suggesting that you can achieve it naturally too in theory. Also suggesting that if we would be capable of using our body to produce chemical compounds willingly, then it would be insanity (we do it willingly when we meditate or when we do yoga, but thats of course nothing close to psychedelics).

 

 

[thisintegrated]

1 minute ago, zurew said:

Whats your opinion about people who talk about "psychedelics can only do , what you brain is capable of doing. Chemical compounds go and activate already existing brain machinery." (These people are mostly either psychiatrists or gurus like sadghuru)

Suggesting that you can achieve it naturally too in theory. Also suggesting that if we would be capable of using our body to produce chemical compounds willingly, then it would be insanity (we do it willingly when we meditate or when we do yoga, but thats of course nothing close to psychedelics).

Well DMT is naturally present in the body/brain, so just having more of it should produce more of what you're already capable of experiencing.

[The0Self]

16 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

Therefore.. chemicals can, in theory, explain every emotional state imaginable.  Including all the Jhanas.  In time, we can expect a "Jhana II", and even a "Jhana III" chemical to be released.

Sure one could say chemicals are a tool for how reality creates hedonic/etc experiences. But if you're talking about explaining in the context of a materialist worldview, that can actually be directly seen to not be the case -- there is absolutely no actual physical universe separate from consciousness, or separation of any kind. There is simply the infinite and there are no boundaries except in your imagination. If that doesn't resonate, no matter. Don't believe it, it can only be seen directly.

Edited May 4, 2022 by The0Self

[thisintegrated]

1 minute ago, The0Self said:

Sure one could say chemicals are a tool for how reality creates hedonic/etc experiences. But if you're talking about explaining in the context of a materialist worldview, that can actually be directly seen to not be the case. There is simply the infinite and there are no boundaries except in your imagination. If that doesn't resonate, no matter. Don't believe it, it can only be seen directly.

Are you saying emotions are the one and only exception to our reality?  Everything else has a physical aspect to it, every memory has a physical, measurable component in the brain, etc., but emotions are unique?

[The0Self]

8 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

Are you saying emotions are the one and only exception to our reality?  Everything else has a physical aspect to it, every memory has a physical, measurable component in the brain, etc., but emotions are unique?

Definitely not saying that. Emotions and physicality are not separate from each other. An emotion can be said to be an object, just like any physical constituent. And an emotion will of course have a physical aspect / appear to have physical constituents. Everything you call physical is simply consciousness/emptiness appearing physical though. Materiality / Consciousness is a distinction with no real substance whatsoever — literally they aren’t even two separate things.

This still fails to describe the indescribable, but there’s just this singular boundless organic intimacy, the absolute, but if a contracted experiencer seems to be in play, this will appear otherwise via an airtight illusion that makes it seem like you are separate from everything and that there’s an “other” and that there’s something other than the infinite / all that is.

The illusion is a byproduct of the creation of perceptual filter layers, and the trick added to the reality (added to what’s really going on, in that sense) is not so hard to pull off (by ego), since the appearance is this intimate. Its amazing how it’s actually possible to seemingly truly feel oneself as a separate self even though literally there isn’t one... It’s possible because the appearance is so intimate and limitless, and the “absolute non-resistance”-constructed emotional/logical/sensitive/ego-apparatus is so damn incredibly, ingeniously engrossing.

Edited May 5, 2022 by The0Self

[RMQualtrough]

Weirdly, too much happiness can make us feel bad. Srs. You'd think extreme joy would be the best thing possible, but apparently it can become overbearing and awful.

[The0Self]

1 hour ago, RMQualtrough said:

Weirdly, too much happiness can make us feel bad. Srs. You'd think extreme joy would be the best thing possible, but apparently it can become overbearing and awful.

Too much of anything can do that. I wouldn't say there's such a thing as too much happiness, but too much exhilaration, joy, and pleasure is sort of possible -- if it occurs it's generally very short-lived though. In fact, the transition from second to third jhana has the taste of the pleasure and exhilaration being so intense that it's uncomfortable, and so the exhilaration disappears and the pleasure sort of remains in a far less overpowering and more sublime form.