Complexity within Thought. Aftermath of Ego loss?

[Kamo]

Ive been working on understanding concepts and thoughts quite rigorously, I understand how thought as a system is doing the conceptualizing and contemplating really about itself or the nature of thought, Thinking is the movement of thoughts as it fabricates ideas about more thoughts and ideas. Identifying with Awareness engaging in observation, There are insights that arise about the structure and the thought patterns which is subtlety different from thought itself, that informs me with some kind of information about the structure. I realize how the self concept or Ego is another idea with in this system of thought. Its almost like the part of the mind which is claiming the responsibility of all mental phenomena and physical actions and the subject of experiencing. Ive been in states of consciousness where this idea fell away and life was just "happening" I was unable to operate from that state, there was deep confusion and Identity seemed to be ungrounded. Eventually an identity or self concept was reconstructed to allow the mind to operate and engage with the world again. Learning about how the ego really eventually drops away or reduces its patterns completely, I became puzzled, my question to you guys is,

Does the ability or care to do anything without the concept of a "Me/I" who is doing it maintain progression?

Moving into higher mind thinking this "seeker" is trying to "gain" or better oneself to varying degrees through Self Actualization, however that whole thing is literally just a concept within awareness. Furthermore, This I know to be me making the "assumption" that, if this is lost (self concept) then would the desire to even bother with the work go with it, can "I" still do the work without the concept of an "I" or "persona" to maintain knowledge of who or what exactly I am working with? This aspect may be an illusory egoic defense mechanism to sustain itself, how ever there still seems to be some kind of importance in it being upheld in order to care to do anything? If there's no concept of "Me" to take responsibility for generating results in my life how then is the motivation/desire going to be maintained to continue anything?

Identity may just shift to something else like the field of Awareness which I already grasp experientially, which may allow the system to progress without a self concept, I see how there is a fundamental survival mechanism running in which the system will continue to do things to survive (similar to how animals or children work) with out the need for a self concept, which may be automatically oriented into progressing to higher degrees of awakening, but beyond that it seems I need an idea of myself to know who is doing the constructing of my life as well as upholding whos life is being Actualized.

[WelcometoReality]

5 hours ago, Kamo said:

Does the ability or care to do anything without the concept of a "Me/I" who is doing it maintain progression?

There are activities which are part of the "Me/I" concept and these fall away but progression of life still happens without the "Me/I". It might even be seen as running smoother without the push/pulls of it.

[Kamo]

@WelcometoReality  do you think theres a need for an idea of self to know who is doing the constructing of your life as well as upholding whos life is being Actualized?

Edited May 2, 2022 by Kamo

[WelcometoReality]

5 hours ago, Kamo said:

@WelcometoReality  do you think theres a need for an idea of self to know who is doing the constructing of your life as well as upholding whos life is being Actualized?

No, in my view it's totally unnecessary. Life will take its own course without anyone at the rudder. ?

[Kamo]

Okay so now is a good opportunity for me to mention what i mean, for you to be able to create your response and say "in my view" that is inherently suggesting your self-concept. As you may be in a more surrendered state to not really be identified with a self concept, I understand how you can be just observing life happen, but you still hold one as a function to reference yourself. That is the aspect I am talking about. It seems there is no way around that especially when communicating with others?

[WelcometoReality]

49 minutes ago, Kamo said:

Okay so now is a good opportunity for me to mention what i mean, for you to be able to create your response and say "in my view" that is inherently suggesting your self-concept. As you may be in a more surrendered state to not really be identified with a self concept, I understand how you can be just observing life happen, but you still hold one as a function to reference yourself. That is the aspect I am talking about. It seems there is no way around that especially when communicating with others?

Yes, it might seem contradictory to use "my view" when talking about no self and I could express myself in another way which is stripped from all words that is used to reference the separate self. But why? If there's no clinging to a self or no-self then why not use the word me, I or any other self-referential word. ? Also "my view" highlights that what I'm saying is an opinion based on my own experience. Someone else might have another one.

There's a trade off when communicating between closeness to truth, how well it resonates and convenience. I can't really say how the answer is formed but the answer depends at the time by the way the question is asked.

 

 

[Kamo]

Yeah see that clicked for me. It's on the level of language that it can have an implication for communication. But it's in actuality there can be no self concept. It seems so obvious now. That self referential aspects has been a tricky fuck to figure out. I'm getting there tho lmao. 

[WelcometoReality]

1 hour ago, Kamo said:

Yeah see that clicked for me. It's on the level of language that it can have an implication for communication. But it's in actuality there can be no self concept. It seems so obvious now. That self referential aspects has been a tricky fuck to figure out. I'm getting there tho lmao. 

Yeah in actuality the self is only in thought and is only believed to be something that is actual, separate from everything else. 

In actuality there's also nothing to figure out and nowhere to get to. It's all here in the present moment. ?

 

[Kamo]

@WelcometoReality Thank you for the conversation. I appreciate your time and comments. This all makes sense to me. 

[WelcometoReality]

1 hour ago, Kamo said:

@WelcometoReality Thank you for the conversation. I appreciate your time and comments. This all makes sense to me. 

And thank you. I enjoyed the conversation with you. ?