Angelo Dilullo MD (extremely direct and comprehensive teacher of liberation)

[UnbornTao]

In my mind, self-inquiry is synonym with contemplation of what you are.

Contemplation is what you do while becoming conscious.

[Flyboy]

On 5/10/2022 at 1:51 PM, Leo Gura said:

Please, spare me the BS.

Angelo and enlightenment are fictions of your mind. And you do not understand that!

But carry on with your dreams.

I'm trying to get you to consider that it isn't BS.  Have you considered that during the time you tried all the workshops and classic meditation that you just didn't get far enough to actually start to really get it?  To get there requires a really really deep digging into super subtle stuff.  You need to get really freaking good at sensing your perceptions, thoughts, and feelings.  This is super hard, but it can be done.  The result is seeing reality as it really IS right now, which has nothing to do with a state and everything to do with what is actually true.

I'm talking about NONDUALITY, and you're talking about transcendent states.  To truly realize nonduality, radical no-self is foundational and has to be because it's the fundamental illusory split between subject and object.  This is not "no-mind", but literally the collapse of all dualities and all identities, leading to absolute ineffable groundless paradox and non-description, and it only ever is this here eternally now.  When you go chasing transcendence, you miss the whole boat because you miss that the deepest truth isn't a state or about any kind of content.  This is the truth that brings peace and love and happiness.  The very seeking that drives you to desire understanding with psychedelics IS separation from real understanding, from Being.  

I just see your mind constructing this frame in which there is this "high realization", a Leo that should embody it, and a noble drive for understanding.  Break this construction and free fall backwards.  Radically accept absolutely everything, even your own resistance and craving, and do this until it melts.  Accept every dark emotion and thought.  Accept the deep powerful NO that reverberates through your being when you try to let go.  And keep going.  It is so obvious you are not free, and I wish you would stop being stubborn here because it's just ego, and it misleads people who are using you as their primary resource.

[Asayake]

On 5/10/2022 at 10:51 PM, Leo Gura said:

Nope

Watching cartoons could lead to God-realization, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Why am I so pessmistic about self-inquiry? Because I barely see any such people know what God is. I have met and seen a lot of neo-advaita self-inquirers -- students and teachers -- and it's just obvious they aren't fully awake.

In practice that is not good enough.

What do you think of Rupert Spira? He proposed a lot of self-inquiry as "the soultion" as far as I am aware. Does his teachings lead to God-realization?

[Leo Gura]

On 5/10/2022 at 2:00 PM, Bandman said:

@Leo Gura But how did you reach God-Realization then? If you didn't know you were God at first? Basically you are saying we have to go in to deep with contemplation and psychedelics with the intention of realizing you are God. But that would be begging the question right? You should be able to find it out without that intention if it is true. If me being God is absolute truth a contemplation into what is true should do it. (With enough consciousness what psychs would give me)

You need a radical alteration of your state of consciousness. Intention isn't good enough. Mediation isn't good enough. Self-inquiry isn't good enough. Only a change in state is enough.

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If no one told you you are God, how would you reach realization?

Through a radical shift in state of consciousness.

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Why does an ultimate contemplation into Truth and reality not always lead to God Realization, if that is the ultimate truth to be found out? Do you understand my confusion?

Because your state runs everything and you are contemplating and intending from within a certain limited state which will never be good enough. You can't break out of your state through sober contemplation alone. Nor even mediation.

2 hours ago, Flyboy said:

I'm trying to get you to consider that it isn't BS.  Have you considered that during the time you tried all the workshops and classic meditation that you just didn't get far enough to actually start to really get it?  To get there requires a really really deep digging into super subtle stuff.  You need to get really freaking good at sensing your perceptions, thoughts, and feelings.  This is super hard, but it can be done.  The result is seeing reality as it really IS right now, which has nothing to do with a state and everything to do with what is actually true.

I'm talking about NONDUALITY, and you're talking about transcendent states.  To truly realize nonduality, radical no-self is foundational and has to be because it's the fundamental illusory split between subject and object.  This is not "no-mind", but literally the collapse of all dualities and all identities, leading to absolute ineffable groundless paradox and non-description, and it only ever is this here eternally now.  When you go chasing transcendence, you miss the whole boat because you miss that the deepest truth isn't a state or about any kind of content.

I just see your mind constructing this frame in which there is this "high realization"

No!

I am telling you that all of that is child's games compared to God-realization.

You do not understand what God is, nor do any of the teachers you've been following. They are not God-realized. You will  not understand this until you realize what God is. It's way beyond nonduality or any Buddhist bullshit. There is no way for me to explain it to you. You just have to awaken deeper.

I am talking about the fact that you are imagining every spiritual thing. You are even imagining nonduality and all those nondual teachers and teachings. You are even hallucinating right now that you've ever meditated. Your meditation itself is a just a dream.

God-realization is not transcendence of the present. It is full, 1000% presence. But you don't have that now. What you have is some weak-sauce neo-advaita idea of presence and God.

Nobody is teaching what I am teaching. It's not all the same. And there is no way I can prove that to you. But I have awoken to levels that nobody teaches or talks about. You will never reach it via meditation. Never. You can fully master Buddhism and you will still not reach it. I have reached complete omniscience. And it has nothing to do with suffering or liberation. And it's the only thing you will ever want if you ever reach it.

How can I possibly claim and know such things? You will never understand until you reach what I have reached. It cannot be communicated. It requires infinite bandwidth to get it.

[Leo Gura]

37 minutes ago, Bandman said:

@Leo Gura even on a psychedelic, an inquiry and intention of truth should be enough to pierce into God-Realization if God-Realization is true,

Well, it is enough of course, but you have to be very serous about it. Most people who trip and even who trip and contemplate are not serious enough. They are not thinking deeply enough. It took me a few dozen trips to realize I am God. And it took me over 200 trips and a decade of groundwork to reach the full God-realization that I speak of nowadays. It also required finding the right chemicals. I had to test out dozens of chemicals to find the perfect one for me. The levels of realization I've reached cannot be reached with a single trip, no matter how strong. Years of integration work is required. The human mind is not ready to handle full God-realization. And I am still going deeper.

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But by literally taking a chemical outside of yourself, the universe allows you to break this rule of survival and evolution.

Something like that.

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However you still can't be entirely sure of the psychedelic requirement for everyone either. Just like psychedelic states are outliers and therefore can thread way outside the conventional staters of consciousness, there could be a tiny amount of outlier individual humans that do own the ability to attain these states sober.

Technically it doesn't have to be psychedelic, it can be anything. Psychedelics work in my reality. In your reality maybe sticking a popsicle up your butt will give you a total God-realization. There's no reason why it couldn't. It just depends on how you've structured your dream. But also, many of us tend to structure our dreams in the same way. Hence why psychedelics work for most people. But not all people. And not equally for most people.

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Just because you and a lot of others could never reach it sober doesn't mean those outliers can't exist.

I know for sure that outliers exist. But it would be foolish of me to angle my teachings towards genetic freaks. I am teaching normal people, not one in a million outliers. If you were one of those outliers you probably wouldn't need my teachings, so it's pointless to even talk about.

[The0Self]

@Leo Gura Just as a small nitpick, what Angelo can talk about, directly on the scene, is utterly beyond nonduality. I recognize it essentially as what you might term something like absolute impersonal solipsism. If you don’t see that, you pretty much just haven’t seen enough of his stuff.  It’s definitely not set apart from God either it just has no need to be called as such.

Edited May 13, 2022 by The0Self

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, The0Self said:

@Leo Gura Just as a small nitpick, what Angelo can talk about, directly on the scene, is utterly beyond nonduality. I recognize it essentially as what you might term something like absolute impersonal solipsism. If you don’t see that, you pretty much just haven’t seen enough of his stuff.  It’s definitely not set apart from God either it just has no need to be called as such.

Well, I've only seen a few of his talks. Not the full body of his work. My commentary on people is always based on what I've seen of their work, which can change in the future. I don't have time to study everyone's full body of work. I just basically get a sense of their vibe and the way they speak and I can quickly see how awake they are. Just the way they speak about God in a few sentences tells me everything they are missing. They are not speaking with clarity and directness.

[The0Self]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Well, I've only seen a few of his talks. Not the full body of his work. My commentary on people is always based on what I've seen of their work, which can change in the future.

Makes sense. Fair enough.

[Raptorsin7]

I thought this was a great video.

I wonder if you watched this video and applied the technique while on dmt or malt if that would lead to what Leo calls god realization

[The0Self]

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I just basically get a sense of their vibe and the way they speak and I can quickly see how awake they are. Just the way they speak about God in a few sentences tells me everything they are missing. They are not speaking with clarity and directness.

Same here. But in Angelo's case: when that was what you saw, it's almost certainly the case that he just wasn't, right then and there, in the process of coaxing someone to their next step in deconstructing the illusion of separation.

You've read Jed McKenna right? This fellow Angelo is basically a real-life, present-day, active-online (and anesthesiologist) version of the Jed character in those three enlightenment books. And if you think Jed was missing God, while I wouldn't strongly disagree, because I can't know that absolutely... all I do know absolutely is that I'm not. And I see the same in both you and Jed, and Angelo. With Jed it'd just be plainly obvious there's no God outside of what I am -- he even describes this (his state, though sometimes that has to be implied) multiple times as "seeing everything forever in all directions" -- and if he's referring to what I'm certain he is, then that's effectively enlightenment or God realization (though it doesn't need a name, it's simply absolute truth) and there's nothing else beyond it... To be clear I'm not saying enlightenment reaches a point where nothing more develops and expands relatively speaking. And the quoted description of Jed's is obviously not merely metaphorical but also obviously not merely referring to the visual sense.

And for some, that of course would beg another question... Jed wasn't missing Love, either. In his body of work he just calls it agape, and uses the word "love" to describe personal love, which seems to be why it's possible for one to think Jed has missed the facet of Love.

Edited May 13, 2022 by The0Self

[Flyboy]

On 5/12/2022 at 6:14 PM, Leo Gura said:

You need a radical alteration of your state of consciousness. Intention isn't good enough. Mediation isn't good enough. Self-inquiry isn't good enough. Only a change in state is enough.

Through a radical shift in state of consciousness.

Because your state runs everything and you are contemplating and intending from within a certain limited state which will never be good enough. You can't break out of your state through sober contemplation alone. Nor even mediation.

No!

I am telling you that all of that is child's games compared to God-realization.

You do not understand what God is, nor do any of the teachers you've been following. They are not God-realized. You will  not understand this until you realize what God is. It's way beyond nonduality or any Buddhist bullshit. There is no way for me to explain it to you. You just have to awaken deeper.

I am talking about the fact that you are imagining every spiritual thing. You are even imagining nonduality and all those nondual teachers and teachings. You are even hallucinating right now that you've ever meditated. Your meditation itself is a just a dream.

God-realization is not transcendence of the present. It is full, 1000% presence. But you don't have that now. What you have is some weak-sauce neo-advaita idea of presence and God.

Nobody is teaching what I am teaching. It's not all the same. And there is no way I can prove that to you. But I have awoken to levels that nobody teaches or talks about. You will never reach it via meditation. Never. You can fully master Buddhism and you will still not reach it. I have reached complete omniscience. And it has nothing to do with suffering or liberation. And it's the only thing you will ever want if you ever reach it.

How can I possibly claim and know such things? You will never understand until you reach what I have reached. It cannot be communicated. It requires infinite bandwidth to get it.

What has this done for you though?  How does this affect your "now"?  There's a huge part of me that really badly wants to experience this as you have, but when I reflect carefully, that part of me is entirely ego-based.  It is only the "I" that wants this, that feels the lack that needs this, that feels incomplete without this.  It is the "I" that needs to understand, that wants to experience omniscience or infinity, etc.

From a truly ultimate perspective the infinite omniscient "ALL" is no better or worse than a paperclip.  All contains one and one contains all.  There is nothing that could possibly be more or better than anything else because of this.  There's no higher or lower, there's no better or worse.  Can you honestly say you experience this kind of absolute equanimity? 

THAT is what enlightenment and God-realization truly is about.  Anything but that is evidence of illusion/delusion remaining.  That's why I say you aren't there, no matter how deep your trips are.  There is a falling backwards that happens in the heart of paradox, and that is where folks like Angelo and Frank Yang have gone and reside.  I am convinced that is much more the point of existence than trip insights.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Flyboy

[The0Self]

In case I forgot... meant to post this:

Simple yet rather complete, accurate, and useful and relatable overview of the path.

Edited May 17, 2022 by The0Self

[The0Self]

Prime content if awakening is even on your radar.