Why Self-Realization did not make me a Good & Pious Human Being?

[Muhammad Jawad]

22 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

sounds like you have ceased to be repressed. now you are free, and you have the opportunity to contribute to the people around you. before you were just a slave, nothing

Ok

20 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

It can kind of feel like both simultaneously. Certain patterns may start dissolving while others can seem to intensity because there is no one attempting to control them. 

It can just feel very out of control for weeks, months..... it's a little different for everyone!

Right. Thanks

[Muhammad Jawad]

13 hours ago, SeaMonster said:

Seeing through the separate self is only stage one of the awakening process. And yes, your experience of feeling out of control is typical of reaching this stage.

Now you have to see through the localized bubble "no-self" consciousness to go further.

I have already seen that there is not a separate self and there is not any Self as well. There is No Self. It's already clear to me.

[Muhammad Jawad]

6 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

I would question my own consciousness in the matter before readily assuming being "realized." Is it really true or is it simply a belief, conviction or conclusion?

You seem to conflate enlightenment with transformation. Youre also coming from value systems (shoulds and shouldn'ts) and morality, which isn't what the work is about.

Be honest. That's what I'm working on and what i recommend you.

Right. Sure. Thanks a lot. :-)

[Muhammad Jawad]

6 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

That's why you're still alive.  Only through life and experiencing the consequences of your actions do you learn.

Right

6 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

"Understanding" alone will do absolutely nothing in terms of changing who you are.

Ok

6 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

Just be your authentic self, and that's it.  Nothing else you need to do.

Ok. Right.

6 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

If your real self is an asshole that hurts people, then that "real" self is what will learn and grow from the consequences of being itself.

True

6 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

If you put on an act and present a "fake" you to the world, then only the fake you will learn.

Right

6 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

You've likely read up on content too advanced for you, and have concluded that it doesn't work.  But the problem is most likely with you.  Just going through the motions isn't enough, you have to be ready to integrate everything.

OK. And how to be ready to integrate everything?

6 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

This tells me that you consider being viewed as "good and pious" as a goal in itself.  This is not how self-realized people think.  There is no one to impress, no one to gain approval from.

Right

6 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

For as long as your reason to self-realize is to gain the status of "good and pious", you won't really self-realize.  Your writing style and word choice reminds me of stage Blue priests who are trying to save themselves from sin or something.

Ok...

6 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

It's not something you can check off on a to-do list, you will never "succeed".  You'll just progress.  And there's no reward, no status, no recognition, nothing.

Right

6 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

You'll just be free from more of your own BS the further you go.  And the further you go, the more you'll have to offer others, and the less you'll want to be an asshole. 

hmmm. Right

6 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

You shouldn't be thinking "am I acting good or bad?", goodness will just eventually become your natural state.  By trying to become "good", you're just trying to skip the steps that lead to "good". 

Makes Sence.

 

Thanks a lot :-)

[LastThursday]

On 28/04/2022 at 5:43 AM, Muhammad Jawad said:

I am not able to control myself, I am not able to abstain myself from wrongdoings, and I have lost my free will because there is no separate "I" anymore to control my life.

I'm guessing what's lacking yet is the realisation of unity. You are everything. Everything you do and say affects everything and everyone else.

[VeganAwake]

3 hours ago, Muhammad Jawad said:

I have already seen that there is not a separate self and there is not any Self as well. There is No Self. It's already clear to me.

Yeah this is it!

Everyone thinks it's going to be this big mystical happening for a someone....it's not, it's an unhappening for no one!

It can be quite an ordinary realization or it can feel big and profound!  

Its simply seeing that the characteristics and the behaviors (some conditioned some not) of this apparent body, do not amount to a separate self.

The sense of self is like an illusory byproduct of being told you are a separate person from a young age....it's the physical and mental experiences of this assumption/misunderstanding.

❤ 

 

Edited April 29, 2022 by VeganAwake

[SeaMonster]

5 hours ago, Muhammad Jawad said:

I have already seen that there is not a separate self and there is not any Self as well. There is No Self. It's already clear to me.

If you're saying you've reached the stage where there is no subject-object duality (unity consciousness) then the feeling of being out of control will pass after some months.  You have to give it some time.  There is a period of clean-up that happens and it's not always pleasant.  Really, you need to give it a good three years to let all the crap drain out.

Edited April 29, 2022 by SeaMonster

[Thanks]

The point is you are not your body-mind. When you trascend your body-mind you can be in radical states of consciousness but that does not mean your body-mind is somehow purified and better in a causal and direct sense. If you want to improve that body-mind holiness work for it, if you want to realize you are not this body-mind then go for self-realization. To assume that trascending the body-mind will make your body-mind increase in alignment with truth is a misunderstanding. I see most of the people missing the point with Leo in this exact topic, the body-mind of Leo is quite good but at the end that is not what matters about him nor is the highest relationship you can have with him, the best is to meet him in the trascendence of your body-mind and comune with all great masters there. All that, will eventually be expressed through your body-mind that can be mediocre as it may be your case but one thing does not take the other one, understand? Just some good discernment is needed. Use the specific tool for the specific problem.

Also you seem looping a lot about this topic why don't you let it go? I mean what does it matter if you are bad and you go to hell and suffer. It's more about your narrative and story taken up from your social conditioning and since your first post here, you are trying to solve that problem but hey maybe there is no problem to be solved, rather you yourself are creating the problem, then no solution is required, just see the game. Many times we have talked about it but you seem to enjoy your game and get lost in the sauce, let it be then or break free.

New account btw forgot my password and couldn't get it back but fresh beggining are always nice. You may guess who I am

[BipolarGrowth]

Maybe it’s called Self-Realization rather than false self maximization for a reason?

[Muhammad Jawad]

19 hours ago, LastThursday said:

I'm guessing what's lacking yet is the realisation of unity. You are everything. Everything you do and say affects everything and everyone else.

Right. But Here is already the experience of oneness. Everything here is appearing and disappearing in just This One Bubble.

[Muhammad Jawad]

16 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

Yeah this is it!

Everyone thinks it's going to be this big mystical happening for a someone....it's not, it's an unhappening for no one!

It can be quite an ordinary realization or it can feel big and profound!  

Its simply seeing that the characteristics and the behaviors (some conditioned some not) of this apparent body, do not amount to a separate self.

The sense of self is like an illusory byproduct of being told you are a separate person from a young age....it's the physical and mental experiences of this assumption/misunderstanding.

Yes, Exactly. True. 

[Muhammad Jawad]

14 hours ago, SeaMonster said:

If you're saying you've reached the stage where there is no subject-object duality (unity consciousness) then the feeling of being out of control will pass after some months.  You have to give it some time.  There is a period of clean-up that happens and it's not always pleasant.  Really, you need to give it a good three years to let all the crap drain out.

Ok. Right...

Make Sense....

[Chrisd]

19 hours ago, LastThursday said:

I'm guessing what's lacking yet is the realisation of unity. You are everything. Everything you do and say affects everything and everyone else.

I think LastThursday is right

[Muhammad Jawad]

14 hours ago, Thanks said:

The point is you are not your body-mind. When you trascend your body-mind you can be in radical states of consciousness but that does not mean your body-mind is somehow purified and better in a causal and direct sense.

Right.

14 hours ago, Thanks said:

If you want to improve that body-mind holiness work for it, if you want to realize you are not this body-mind then go for self-realization.

hmmm Ok

14 hours ago, Thanks said:

To assume that trascending the body-mind will make your body-mind increase in alignment with truth is a misunderstanding.

Yes, I had that misunderstanding.

14 hours ago, Thanks said:

I see most of the people missing the point with Leo in this exact topic, the body-mind of Leo is quite good but at the end that is not what matters about him nor is the highest relationship you can have with him, the best is to meet him in the trascendence of your body-mind and comune with all great masters there. All that, will eventually be expressed through your body-mind that can be mediocre as it may be your case but one thing does not take the other one, understand?

Yes

14 hours ago, Thanks said:

Just some good discernment is needed. Use the specific tool for the specific problem.

Right

14 hours ago, Thanks said:

Also you seem looping a lot about this topic why don't you let it go?

Fear of Hell etc...

14 hours ago, Thanks said:

I mean what does it matter if you are bad and you go to hell and suffer.

Does not that matter if you burn your hand in the fire? What about all of the burning pain eternally? 

14 hours ago, Thanks said:

It's more about your narrative and story taken up from your social conditioning

Yes, But not sure if that Story is true or false.

14 hours ago, Thanks said:

since your first post here, you are trying to solve that problem but hey maybe there is no problem to be solved, rather you yourself are creating the problem, then no solution is required, just see the game.

I need 100% confirmation that there is no eternal torment.

14 hours ago, Thanks said:

Many times we have talked about it but you seem to enjoy your game and get lost in the sauce, let it be then or break free.

I do not enjoy this. Fear is not letting me break free...

14 hours ago, Thanks said:

New account btw forgot my password and couldn't get it back but fresh beggining are always nice. You may guess who I am

Sorry, I can't guess. Please can you introduce yourself? 

[Muhammad Jawad]

2 hours ago, BipolarGrowth said:

Maybe it’s called Self-Realization rather than false self maximization for a reason?

Is this question for me? Sorry I couldn't understand this question.

[BipolarGrowth]

7 minutes ago, Muhammad Jawad said:

Is this question for me? Sorry I couldn't understand this question.

It is a hypothetical question meant to highlight the irony behind viewing Self-Realization as a means to maximize the status and influence of the illusory and impermanent individual character commonly called the self/ego

[Chrisd]

Muhammad Jawad,

Sounds to me like you need to permanently realize yourself as beyond suffering

I don't look for permanent solutions because I don't think they exist

Edited April 30, 2022 by Chrisd

[Aaron p]

@Muhammad Jawad i struggled with the exact same thing bro. My studies on this matter arent finalized yet but here are a few of my findings.

Hurt people, hurt people. Pain breeds pain. And if your going through the process of awakening, your pain will get worse before it gets better. Which means, in the short term, a person pursuing awaking may actually be a worse person morally, psychologically etc before it births peace and moral uprightness. 

From what i can tell...ultimately all immorality comes from a lack of consciousness theoretically. In this regard im referring to the elements of consciousness responsible for 1: informed and contextualized knowledge on how certain actions activate short or long chains of events that lead to other people being hurt, and 2: the understanding that hurting people is not necessary or good (because they are the same as you, and you dont deserve to be hurt.)

 

here is a key insight: you will not become enlightened easily by simply being more moral and morality is not an effective way to go about trying to get enlightened.

This is a problem in Christianity called "good works". Which comes first? Love or good works. Which one stimulates the other? Good works can stimulate small degrees of love, but it is love that stimulates any and all forms of good works. The problem is that people see this and then just do good works thinking they're filled with love/god. Truthfully, morality doesent have very much to do with salvation/awakening at all...other than the fact that it is (and can only ever authentically be) an accidental byproduct of your awakening practices. However this does not mean that you cannot be moral and on the path to enlightenment...another key here is that you can be moral if you want, but authentic morality only exists when there is absolutely no reward for it whatsoever...when the only motivation is simply because it feels good...because you want to be moral for no reason at all...because you love.

 

Ephesians 2:8-9

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast."

Edited April 30, 2022 by Aaron p

[gettoefl]

10 hours ago, Muhammad Jawad said:

Is this question for me? Sorry I couldn't understand this question.

i think you might enjoy the voice of babaji, there is a twitter that quotes some every day

https://twitter.com/ombabajiom/status/1520189461321113601?s=20&t=XXj9n-08WIN6Liqx5pUD6g

 

[ZenSwift]

@nistake man I need to study Jung