Is astrology complete BS or just mostly?

[thisintegrated]

2 minutes ago, captainamerica said:

https://jothishi.com/buddha-on-astrology/#:~:text=He says%2C “Whereas some ascetics,outcome of these things.” Lord

https://english.sreyas.in/swami-vivekananda-on-astrology/#:~:text=If a star disturbs my,take good food and rest.

There are quotations in the book Autobiography of a Yogi as well. 

Can you give a brief summary?

[captainamerica]

@thisintegrated I will be back online in some time. 

Will definitely discuss it in more detail. 

[captainamerica]

Have you read the book If Truth Be Told by Om Swami? It is on Leo's book list as well. 

The author has that superhuman intuition. He said that he meets about 4000 people individually,per year. Plus 2000-3000 people in groups. Total 6-7000 people. 

He noticed this interesting thing with his superhuman intuition. When people come to him and ask him if some of their specific work or goal or vision will be successfully accomplished or not 80-90% of the time the future is not even written. It is upto the person at that point. 

Before becoming a monk he read 15000 horoscopes. There also he observed the same thing. 80-90% future is can be changed. 

(With intuition it was found that it is not written. In Astrology he found 80-90% "future" is changeable. Subtle difference but yeah both are pointing to the same thing) 

This is where it gets insightful. The framing of astrology as practiced today is wrong. (Originally Astrology was practiced in a completely different manner). 

The framing of astrology makes it look like the dreams or vision cannot be realised because it is not written in horoscope but in truth 80-90% of the time nothing is written. From other perspective astrology can make it look like you don't have the power to realise/create your vision (at the moment). Through inacurate framing it is common for people to have such skill and power as their default state. This is a silly expectation because who does? It is not like that is the default state that we can all expect. But instead of explicitly stating it like this a game of framing is used to hide this approach of Astrology. If the approach was made explicit people will see through it. 

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by captainamerica

[captainamerica]

On top of it Astrology does not have methods to calculate law of attraction that you may channel, will, other elements of universe and mind, etc. So it presents a very incomplete picture. 

One of the yogic secrets goes as follows. "One who can change their own nature can potentially even change the nature of the whole universe". 

This element of the will's ability to control its own emotions (like anger, fear, etc.) and reinvent oneself such that the decison making changes and hence the outcomes in life change is also not covered in Astrology. 

Emotional control and reinvention of dominant emotions and attitudes is one great secret because then the decision making changes. Really hard to do in practice though. 

Edited April 28, 2022 by captainamerica

[Hello from Russia]

You need to look at least into full natal charts which is around 10 planets and 12 houses, of course just your sun sign won't give you anything, it's just 5% of all equation

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by Hello from Russia

[captainamerica]

Astrology as practiced today is mostly BS.

Originally it was much better. One primary use was to calculate proper times for chanting and meditation to get the most benefits. Now percentage wise the fake and misleading approach is the primary practice. 

Edited April 28, 2022 by captainamerica

[Michael Jackson]

10 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

Here ya go https://imgur.com/a/Dtd3jrn

How accurate is this?

@thisintegrated this is surprisingly accurate:o

9 hours ago, Galyna said:

Are you kidding me? You need to know at least place of birth and almost exact time of birth, with the date ofc.
Try this and tell me how accurate it is:

https://astro.cafeastrology.com/natal.php

@Galyna

Your website was a lot less accurate than the one of thisintegrated.

[Reciprocality]

Nothing is complete bullshit, or rather, complete bullshit has no appearance and is merely an empty hypothesis. Humans make two kinds of connections, either it is particular or universal.

To claim that astrology is complete bullshit is to claim that a particular connection is a universal non-connection and somehow therefore also a particular non-connection.

But if I claim that my month of conception correlates with strawberry eating on Tuesdays then I have made a connection necessarily, and so it can not be complete bullshit. The problem we have is that we think that if something is not universable then it is bullshit, when the precise opposite is the truth, which does not make universals invalid.

It is because it is not universally valid (that people born in October eats more strawberry on Tuesdays than everyone not born in October) that the particular connection once drawn is valid, valid in particular, it is even valid in particular when it is delusional in general.

 

People are not capable to distinguish between universal and particular for the same reason they think the world revolves around them, that luck will come in their favor, that coincidence implies higher meaning/gods will/repetition or that correlation means causation.

It is impossible to make a connected non-connection, therefore no connections are complete bullshit, in fact the more particular a connection is the smarter one must be to identify likely reasons for it, the more variables there will be on the way there and ultimately the more you would be forgiven for considering it total nonsense.

Delusion is an intricate melody of logical composition, paradox is the love for its repetition.

[eggopm3]

If everything is interconnected then on some level the movements of the stars and planets do affect us. We can detect energy from these bodies from earth so even on that bare minimum level there are still some kind of interactions happening. So I think there's a grain of truth there at least.

[thisintegrated]

14 hours ago, captainamerica said:

Have you read the book If Truth Be Told by Om Swami? It is on Leo's book list as well. 

The author has that superhuman intuition. He said that he meets about 4000 people individually,per year. Plus 2000-3000 people in groups. Total 6-7000 people. 

He noticed this interesting thing with his superhuman intuition. When people come to him and ask him if some of their specific work or goal or vision will be successfully accomplished or not 80-90% of the time the future is not even written. It is upto the person at that point. 

Before becoming a monk he read 15000 horoscopes. There also he observed the same thing. 80-90% future is can be changed. 

(With intuition it was found that it is not written. In Astrology he found 80-90% "future" is changeable. Subtle difference but yeah both are pointing to the same thing) 

This is where it gets insightful. The framing of astrology as practiced today is wrong. (Originally Astrology was practiced in a completely different manner). 

The framing of astrology makes it look like the dreams or vision cannot be realised because it is not written in horoscope but in truth 80-90% of the time nothing is written. From other perspective astrology can make it look like you don't have the power to realise/create your vision (at the moment). Through inacurate framing it is common for people to have such skill and power as their default state. This is a silly expectation because who does? It is not like that is the default state that we can all expect. But instead of explicitly stating it like this a game of framing is used to hide this approach of Astrology. If the approach was made explicit people will see through it. 

 

Manifestation, and conscious intent being able to affect future probability are common knowledge here.  I think it's more the origins of your attitudes, motivation, desires, etc. that Astrology tries to explain.  E.g. your future wealth isn't a fixed thing, you can manifest it if you want as long there's uncertainty about the future.  But you're not going to manifest a disinterest in wealth as that's not in alignment with your desires.  imo, based on my ~1 hour of research, this is what Astrology tries to address: The constants that define you as an individual.

Horoscopes, though, are mostly BS, imo, that rely too heavily on one's own interpretation of things.  I'm sure they can be accurate, but from what I could find there exists no service that gives you anything reliable/accurate, just generalizations.  It's the signs that seem to hold most of the information, ime.

[thisintegrated]

14 hours ago, captainamerica said:

Astrology as practiced today is mostly BS.

Originally it was much better. One primary use was to calculate proper times for chanting and meditation to get the most benefits. Now percentage wise the fake and misleading approach is the primary practice. 

"originally" there was no internet and you couldn't even research this stuff properly.  Now you can input your date/place of birth and get the exact details you need.

 

10 hours ago, Michael Jackson said:

@thisintegrated this is surprisingly accurate:o

Well then you might wanna look into your moon and planets too to see if they all match you.  Just need to know your location and time of birth.

 

1 hour ago, eggopm3 said:

If everything is interconnected then on some level the movements of the stars and planets do affect us. We can detect energy from these bodies from earth so even on that bare minimum level there are still some kind of interactions happening. So I think there's a grain of truth there at least.

2 hours ago, Reciprocality said:

Nothing is complete bullshit, or rather, complete bullshit has no appearance and is merely an empty hypothesis. Humans make two kinds of connections, either it is particular or universal.

To claim that astrology is complete bullshit is to claim that a particular connection is a universal non-connection and somehow therefore also a particular non-connection.

But if I claim that my month of conception correlates with strawberry eating on Tuesdays then I have made a connection necessarily, and so it can not be complete bullshit. The problem we have is that we think that if something is not universable then it is bullshit, when the precise opposite is the truth, which does not make universals invalid.

It is because it is not universally valid (that people born in October eats more strawberry on Tuesdays than everyone not born in October) that the particular connection once drawn is valid, valid in particular, it is even valid in particular when it is delusional in general.

 

People are not capable to distinguish between universal and particular for the same reason they think the world revolves around them, that luck will come in their favor, that coincidence implies higher meaning/gods will/repetition or that correlation means causation.

It is impossible to make a connected non-connection, therefore no connections are complete bullshit, in fact the more particular a connection is the smarter one must be to identify likely reasons for it, the more variables there will be on the way there and ultimately the more you would be forgiven for considering it total nonsense.

Delusion is an intricate melody of logical composition, paradox is the love for its repetition.

What's unclear is whether the specifics of the claims are accurate/reliable.  Yes, everything's connected, but that's not enough to suggest that "Leos are the most arrogant", for example.  

[zurew]

 

[Galyna]

@vizual @somegirl @zurew @thisintegrated @eggopm3 @Reciprocality @Benton @Michael Jackson @captainamerica

Peeps, here is my take on it: astrology is valid because ego-mind mechanism is an emergence, it is not one thing or the other, but rather emerging phenomena that comprises and creates the illusion of an individualized awareness.  Therefore, each of you contain various qualities to a greater or lesser extent, for example, let's look at it from a dualiaistic point of view: 

I can be 40% extrovert and 60% introvert, ego-centric and altruistic depending on the experience I am having, I can be grounded and sporadic at the same time, sometimes quiet, sometimes loud, sometimes dominant, sometimes submissive. 

Now, plug in astrology here with its predictive methods and you will get the following: each person contains a little bit everything, as you evolve as a human being, some qualities will prevail, the other will forfeit. During your life course you will experience the whole pallet. When young you might exhibit one quality, when old the other. 

Because it is one spectrum with a colorful pallet. 

However, let's remember, we are talking about personality that is always changing. You are not the same person, every day new experience deepens your understanding about life, self, and others. Every day you can be Pisces, Aries, Capricorn, Leo and Aquarius. 

There is no drawn line here.

[martin_malin]

The Human Design and the Gene Keys systems are derived from astrology and I've found them to be quite helpful on my journey. 

[hyruga]

The month of your birth can determine your personality and then even your character.

Edited April 29, 2022 by hyruga

[thisintegrated]

2 minutes ago, Benton said:

The earths axis has tilted since then. You’re zodiac isn’t even accurate

I think tests take this into account.  That's why they ask for your time and location of birth.

[captainamerica]

8 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

"originally" there was no internet and you couldn't even research this stuff properly.  Now you can input your date/place of birth and get the exact details you need.

That is irrelevant. The Masters of astrology had a different approach back then. In one classical text it is even written that Astrology is for the fun and laughter of "intellectual people". The approach was vastly different then. 

Technically as well it is corrupted. Few examples. Most Astrologers use a simplistic and inaccurate approach to calculate Mangalik Dosa. (Presence in the 5 houses as compared to the orignal of accounting for and cancelling out many other forces). In the Astrologer community there is no consensus on Kaalsarpa dosa, what it really means. It is made up. Seven and a half years of Saturn are promoted with Superstitious awe by Astrologers themselves. Harshal is considered as a negative by them. But in truth it is more complex and nuanced. The System of Remedies by Gemstones was not practiced originally. Now atleast 50% astrologers recommend gemstones plus close to 100% recommend other superstitious remedies. Eg. Wear this gemstone for an increase in wealth in order to counter the negative effects of a planet on your finances. 

All these above stated things were much more technically sound before. Say what you will but this a simple fact. 

As for researching, texts were avail. before. and the knowledge was avail. in a guru-shisya system (the system of education before). And it is also a Vedanga. Meaning a key aspect of the Vedas. The knowledge of the Vedas was common before. That was literally the curriculum or syllabus. So yeah it was not as hard as you imagine.

[captainamerica]

9 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

"originally" there was no internet and you couldn't even research this stuff properly.  Now you can input your date/place of birth and get the exact details you need.

This is inaccurate for one more reason. 

There are two types of astrology calculative astrology and predictive astrology. 

Predictive astrology is done by the Astrologers. Even the best Software only has 4-5% of the capacity required to do Predictive astrology. The avg. should be around 1% based on my experience.  Maybe in future it will increase.

You are right about calculative astrology. Internet services do that really well. 

Most of the hype and culture of Astrology is around Predictive Astrology. 

Edited April 29, 2022 by captainamerica

[Kshantivadin]

Sun signs are just a tiny part of the natal chart. Combine all of your planet placements in signs, the houses, degrees of planet placement and movement of the planets (direct,retrograde stationary) at the moment of birth and you get a fuller picture.

At the end of the day it's just another system. But very useful.

[Waken]

If you're interested in these things, perhaps check out Human Design. You can look online for a free human design chart, some websites give a free pdf with the discription of your type.
I met someone some while back who introduced me to this system, and I've been quite blown away by the accuracy. I'm quite skeptical about such things, but if I'm not completely tripping it up, I would say this system has seemed to decribe my (and the design of people I know) design very well. This system or this knowledge came to the founder, Ra, in a certain week in which he heard the 'devine program' expounding all the knowledge of this system. The system outlays your personal design in great depth and you need your birthtime/birthdate to get the results. It's incredibly deep of a system, but the free accessible stuff may be enough for you.