Enlightenment

[73809]

I have never not been Enlightened. There is nothing for me to pursue other than that which I admire, that which I find joy in, that which fulfills me, that which serves a greater purpose. If someone were to ask me if I were enlightened, I would say "Of course, I have always been, especially way back when I was a newborn baby, and especially now." If someone would ask me, "How do I become enlightened," I will say "If you don't already have it you will never Truly obtain it." Enlightenment is not an accomplishment, it is not pursuable, for it is all the Truth we can ever know, and that Truth is seperable from all that can ever be True, despite any claim any spirit may make that it is inseperable.

 

Leo said that reality already happened and everything is fate, and he can't be more wrong. Maybe he realized his error. I doubt it. Leo believes reality already exists in every possible way, again he is wrong. Infinity has no bound, no limit, and what Leo describes is a limit. As much as all of infinity has already happened, there will always be more infinity to...... what exactly? It transcends Existence, Consciousness, and Truth. Infinity is as indescribeable, unknowable, unobtainable, inexistent as it is the negation of all that. Infinity will always be greater than anything you can possibly percieve.

 

Leo is not any more enlightened than I, yet he is better at guiding you to realize enlightenment than I ever will be. 

 

I suffer. So be it. This does not negate my enlightenment. 

I rejoice. So be it. This does not negate my enlightenment. 

I don't doubt that some if not all of you will say, "No, 73809, you are not enlightened, do not give up your pursuit of it."

I say, the only pursuit I have is stepping into the next moment. Yet, the next moment never comes. 

This duality is my enlightenment. I am self, and will never not be self. I pursue a different "heaven" than Leo, for he embodies No Self in every way that he possibly can. Until Leo realizes that god is not Truth, that Truth is greater than Consciousness, he will never truly obtain his enlightenment, he will continue to be seeking. And the irony is, when he believes he understands what I have just said, it will only prove that there is more of this duality for him to reconcile into his No Self. He can never describe what his Truth is in a way that will bring you to it.

 

 

Just thought you might like a different perspective, yet I would not be surprised if this disappeared without a single reply. This post.... it is not for anything other than the expression of one spirit's journey. Take it as you will. 

[Thought Art]

Lol, Leo saying reality is limited…

I don’t think you understand him.

Reality is unlimited. He says that in every video. I also don’t recall him saying that reality already happened? I mean, maybe within the paradox of infinity that would make sense as …. It’s infinity… 

Infinity by its nature by being is EVERYTHING. New things for ever and ever and ever and ever. It’s the cup the overflows 
 

So… God is not Truth, and Truth is not consciousness? What are you talking about man? They are synonymous…

How could GOD not be TRUTH?  
How could BEING not BE what it IS?

All you have ever been had been CONSCIOUSNESS. 

Leo speaking Will never be any of those things. Speaking about Truth is always contradicting itself. That’s the nature of language.
 

Im not sure I understand the point of this post? 
 

Are you saying “I am better and more enlightened than Leo?” 
That’s cool bro. Only you can become enlightened. 

It’s all good.

Edited April 27, 2022 by Thought Art

[Seraphim]

How long have you had those beliefs? Where did you get them? A spiritual teacher? Those neo-advaita beliefs only work for a short while, eventually people realize that they do not want to think that they are enlightened, they want to experience true happiness, peacefulness and freedom, so they keep searching until they find that.

[73809]

@Thought Art

 

heh.  to answer your question, being is more than consciousness. Well, that depends on how you definie consciousness actually. 

 

god is and always will be a name. This makes it less than consciousness. Vocabulary has implicit meaning, and the meaning of god is... welll.... "That which is greater" .... and nonduality just isn't that. I see god as less than.... the indescribabeably, because god cannot escape its implicit meaning. I do not believe in any god, including this pointer nonduality thinkers use to point to what has better pointers to point to it. Leo basically worships god by self actualizing, and that is perfectly good for him. I do not pretend to know his experience or Truth; I only comment on my own, and compare it to his teachings so that you might see something you might not have realized on your own. 

 

Truth... Truth is as unknowable as it knowable. take that as you will. 

on infinity... it was one video, I'm pretty sure he said or implied that there was no more to experience than all of everything. And how exactly is any conscious being going to know that? they can't. Infinity is unbounded, and Leo definitely bounded it with his words. I stopped following him because of it. I had already been on the fence, for the words he used to talk about.... whatever..... just kept getting more and more namelike, and less and less a guidepost. But, that is only my opinion, again, take as you will. 

 

as foryour last question, I already answered it. 

45 minutes ago, 73809 said:

Just thought you might like a different perspective, yet I would not be surprised if this disappeared without a single reply. This post.... it is not for anything other than the expression of one spirit's journey. Take it as you will. 

oh wait, there's a hidden question after that. Yes of course I'm greater than Leo, but that does not mean he is not greater than I. Greatness is incomparable, really. Leo will never have what I have, and never have what you have, and you will never have what your brother has, everyone is greater in their, idk, truth, or whatever. actuality. it's just incomparable and uncombineable. it is seperated by our limitation as the experiencer of the present moment. 

Truth.... it is already gone as soon as we have it, idk, that kind of points to the possibility that we will never get it. sure, Truth can be described as.... thisness.... but Truth, it is... well... infinite, and to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if Unkowable existed beyond Truth, or if Truth existed beyond Unknowable, or maybe they are synonymous...

 

lol I feel like I'm naming things, but my naming things is fundamental to.... who I am. Leo naming things (which, I only know that he has named god) just.... doesn't really fit what he pursues. calling it god is arrogance in my oppinion. god is unknowable, not actuality. like, I can see how one can say that like, godliness is actuality, but by definition we cannot look upon the face of god. Or at least one definition of it. We cannot speak its name. This does not make god.... well... anything. God is unknowable. That's like "undefined" in coding language, lol. Naming something god quite ironically is as arrogant as it is ignorant. Wait, those things aren't opposites, heh. As long as Leo names it god, the religious folk will feel objection to his words. I truly believe this is one word he should abandon, one pointer that fundamentaly fails to accomplish what Leo pursues by creating Actualized.org.

 

 

lol I meant to make a quick reply, but it ended up meandering all over the place. Again, take it as you will, it is only meant to show you an alternate understanding of thisness. fundamentally, thisness is the same thing, for any of us, or is it? how can we tell the difference between the two?

 

 

[73809]

17 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

How long have you had those beliefs? Where did you get them? A spiritual teacher? Those neo-advaita beliefs only work for a short while, eventually people realize that they do not want to think that they are enlightened, they want to experience true happiness, peacefulness and freedom, so they keep searching until they find that.

beliefs? what are beliefs? beliefs are a part of conscious experience. Leo has spoken about the sneakiness of beliefs, and how they ruin your truth... they make you understand reality all wrong. That's kind of funny really, if you think about it. What seperates that statement from belief? what seperates actuality from belief? what seperates nothing or infinity from belief? belief is in my opinion as synonymous with actuality as it is its antonym.

 

I am experiencing enlightenment. I think I am enlightened. Wait, these things are one in the same.... but then, they are also different. anything we say about enlightenment is just the pointer that we understand. and who knows, maybe we point at different things yet undescovered by the self actualization journey. Leo names thought as monkey mind. I name thought as consciousness. In this, we differ. sensation is experienced under the category of thought. aawareness is thought. 

 

why do I say this? because I literally don't think in words or images or anything. My thoughts transend the limit of sensation. the same can be said of my emotion. These things, they are just another way of framing consciousness to me. 

Edited April 27, 2022 by 73809

[73809]

oh, it probably doesn't go without saying. I criticize Leo because my views differ from his. the words I choose to talk about thisness is different from the words he chooses. There was a time when I listened to everything Leo said, and did not seek out other wisdoms. I am past that moment. 

 

I arrived at the ... beliefs if you want to name it that, but I think your word for belief is ignorant, and that is one way we differ. I will freely call it belief, because I accept that belief, monkeymind, thought, senses, anything you can name really, is a part of my thisness. I don't say that these things are lesser than or different from consciousness. Again, this is how what me and Leo say differs.

Edit: I know that the more I delve into different perspectives and thoughts, the less I am grounded in, well, the present moment, to try to point to what I mean. I know that all of my experiences are true, but I also know to seek wisdom and presence. 

 

as I was saying, I got to where I am now in my ability to communicate my spiritual journey because of Leo, and my criticism is nothing more than pointing out our different use of words. I say, there is no way of proving or disproving whether we experience the same thisness or not, and actually, I say that it is clear to assume we don't, as I don't think Leo's thoughts and he doesn't perceive my perceptions. We are both absolutley ignorant and yet we experience truth. I purposefully lowercased truth, because I don't think thisness is, well, all of Truth. It is both seperable and inseperable. I think calling thisness Truth is overambitious. But, I will call it Actuality. In that pointer, I agree with Leo.

Edited April 27, 2022 by 73809

[VeganAwake]

There is no such thing as enlightenment because enlightenment is the realization that the apparent individual which attempts to become enlightened or believes he/she is already enlightened, isn't real at all!!

Meaning it's a seemingly real experience but within a misunderstood reality.

Example:

If your parents convinced you from birth that the outdoor oxygen was deadly and kept you locked in the basement for 19 years there would be all kinds of seemingly real experiences during those 19 years, probably most of them not very pleasant. Then one day the basement window shatters and the outside wind comes roaring into the basement and you are able to breath this oxygen without issue. Your entire paradigm/belief system is shattered & yet there is still the conditioned memories of all those past experiences when you believed the outside oxygen was deadly. 

An entire reality was experienced but within completely unreal circumstances/beliefs.

So it was a seemingly real experience but under completely unreal circumstance.

Making that experience REAL & UNREAL simultaneously.

This is what enlightenment is like only the seemingly real individual (me/you) with all its conditioned beliefs and concepts, was never real from the start. It was an illusion of self within that organism there.

What a mindfuck right?

❤ 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[A Fellow Lighter]

8 hours ago, 73809 said:

I have never not been Enlightened. There is nothing for me to pursue other than that which I admire, that which I find joy in, that which fulfills me, that which serves a greater purpose. If someone were to ask me if I were enlightened, I would say "Of course, I have always been, especially way back when I was a newborn baby, and especially now." If someone would ask me, "How do I become enlightened," I will say "If you don't already have it you will never Truly obtain it." Enlightenment is not an accomplishment, it is not pursuable, for it is all the Truth we can ever know, and that Truth is seperable from all that can ever be True, despite any claim any spirit may make that it is inseperable.

 

Leo said that reality already happened and everything is fate, and he can't be more wrong. Maybe he realized his error. I doubt it. Leo believes reality already exists in every possible way, again he is wrong. Infinity has no bound, no limit, and what Leo describes is a limit. As much as all of infinity has already happened, there will always be more infinity to...... what exactly? It transcends Existence, Consciousness, and Truth. Infinity is as indescribeable, unknowable, unobtainable, inexistent as it is the negation of all that. Infinity will always be greater than anything you can possibly percieve.

 

Leo is not any more enlightened than I, yet he is better at guiding you to realize enlightenment than I ever will be. 

 

I suffer. So be it. This does not negate my enlightenment. 

I rejoice. So be it. This does not negate my enlightenment. 

I don't doubt that some if not all of you will say, "No, 73809, you are not enlightened, do not give up your pursuit of it."

I say, the only pursuit I have is stepping into the next moment. Yet, the next moment never comes. 

This duality is my enlightenment. I am self, and will never not be self. I pursue a different "heaven" than Leo, for he embodies No Self in every way that he possibly can. Until Leo realizes that god is not Truth, that Truth is greater than Consciousness, he will never truly obtain his enlightenment, he will continue to be seeking. And the irony is, when he believes he understands what I have just said, it will only prove that there is more of this duality for him to reconcile into his No Self. He can never describe what his Truth is in a way that will bring you to it.

 

 

Just thought you might like a different perspective, yet I would not be surprised if this disappeared without a single reply. This post.... it is not for anything other than the expression of one spirit's journey. Take it as you will. 

I can totally resonate with everything you've just said. Except for the whether someone can be wrong or not bid. The thing is, on my part, I've never considered enlightenment to be some sort of doctrine with everything being strictly defined such as truth meaning this .. or god meaning that .. and enlightenment meaning so .. Leo certainly presents it as a doctrine which I don't really criticize him for since he is after all a teacher.

Enlightenment is pretty inevitable if you ask me. The whole purpose of life is enlightenment, otherwise why must one be aware of it? Life.. that is to say. Why is there an awareness of life?

In spirituality there is both awakening and enlightenment. I also view these two to be different. The former being something that is initiated, and the latter being somewhat inevitable. There is correlation though.

Truth is not something to figure out conceptually unless you do so in retrospect. Truth is something to be lived, to embody.. this is the only way to learn of the truth, otherwise all you have are ideas of the truth and not the experience itself. See.. this is the point of living.. to learn of the truth.. this is what I refer to enlightenment. And once you learn you become more aware than you were before the life-enlightening experience.. this new expansion of awareness is what I refer to awakening. The key is initiative.

All in all, I'd say that enlightenment is, first and foremost, an individual experience.. only you can know of it and only you can appreciate it. I say that the universe (which includes your other-selves) is always bent on enlightening you, however, whether you awaken/grow from that experience is your absolute choice. Because anyone can put out a candle that has been lit, right? Usually we call this ignorance.. ignoring what is.. it's that easy, one only has to discover the source of light and put it out.. this is ultimately expressed in what we call murder.

Leo seems to see enlightenment as discovering that you're the Infinite Creator, but something tells me that the creator already knows that it is creator. I mean, why wouldn't it know? All that “God put himself to sleep” paradigm, it's a little too narrative for my taste. And I'm not really looking for a story as means to make sense of reality, I'm looking for God himself so that he can tell me himself what the truth is.. metaphysically speaking of course. 

So rather than sitting in my chair trying to figure out what exactly is going on here, I try to work hard enough in order to live my life to the fullest.. tapping into that limitless potential that is my soul.. and see what happens. The best way to learn of the truth is through creating experiences, otherwise nothing will happen and you won't learn a thing.