Real vs Imaginary Distinction

[IamYou]

@Kksd74628 This is why I'm asking about real vs imaginary. I consider dreams to be based on imaginary happenings whereas your response is coming from a real being.

So are you unconscious or conscious? 

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, IamYou said:

Well I want to make sure my distinctions are accurate.

You're not getting it. You are constructing reality. There is nothing against which to compare or ground the distinctions you create iin, other than more distinctions you create.

[JuliusCaesar]

1 minute ago, IamYou said:

@Kksd74628 This is why I'm asking about real vs imaginary. I consider dreams to be based on imaginary happenings whereas your response is coming from a real being.

So are you unconscious or conscious? 

This is an arbitrary distinction. The waking world is also a dream. I'm infinitely conscious, but not from your perspective. From your perspective, I don't exist. From your perspective, you're also not God because you're God imagining itself not to be God. And your imagination is absolute because you're Omnipotent.

[Kksd74628]

@IamYou

Why do you assume that my response is coming from real being? How do you know that you aren't sleeping right NOW? When you are having sleep at night do you go here and ask "others" if they are real or not? Why are you denying that you could be just assuming that everyone around you would be real beings?

[IamYou]

@Kksd74628 That's why I'm asking if you are real or not but you don't give a straight answer. Once again I'm asking directly are you conscious or unconscious?

[JuliusCaesar]

Just now, IamYou said:

@Kksd74628 That's why I'm asking if you are real or not but you don't give a straight answer. Once again I'm asking directly are you conscious or unconscious?

From your perspective, he's neither of those things. And your perspective is alone the only thing that exists.

[IamYou]

@Leo Gura Okay I agree I'm literally constructing reality. But I didn't create myself. Nor did you create yourself. So there is something more fundamental then what I construct. And it doesn't answer whether you are an imaginary being or a real being.

[JuliusCaesar]

1 minute ago, IamYou said:

But I didn't create myself. Nor did you create yourself.

How do you know that?

 

 

[IamYou]

2 minutes ago, JuliusCaesar said:

From your perspective, he's neither of those things. And your perspective is alone the only thing that exists.

Being conscious is a condition. He is either conscious or unconscious. It's like alive vs dead. He can't be both.

You claim to have a perspective but you can't see my hand. I claim I am real and my hand exists. What do you make of that since this means my hand is outside of your perspective but it actually exists. It seems to break your logic that only your perspective exists.

[Kksd74628]

@IamYou

If I would say that I am conscious or not would that prove anything for you? I mean the dream could be so that everyone is telling you that they have their own experience and they are conscious only because that could be only way to keep you thinking that this is "real life" instead another dream. Answer to this thing first if you would ask dream character in your nightly dream if (s)he is real, would possible response "yes" prove you that in dream there are real beings? 

[IamYou]

1 minute ago, JuliusCaesar said:

How do you know that?

 

 

Logically. If you created yourself then there was a time when you didn't exist. However, if you didn't exist then you wouldn't be there to create yourself. So you must be born/unborn/ or imaginary

[IamYou]

@Kksd74628 You are right. Your response doesn't prove anything about whether you are conscious but it does give me insight. 

So why are you claiming that you don't exist?

[JuliusCaesar]

3 minutes ago, IamYou said:

What do you make of that since this means my hand is outside of your perspective but it actually exists.

How do you know I can't perceive your hand? You don't have my perspective so you in truth you don't know what I'm perceiving.

 

3 minutes ago, IamYou said:

It seems to break your logic that only your perspective exists.

My perspective is all perspectives simultaneously because I'm Omnipresent.

 

2 minutes ago, IamYou said:

Logically. If you created yourself then there was a time when you didn't exist.

I'm the creator of the space-time continuum. My existence is eternal without neither beginning nor end.

 

4 minutes ago, IamYou said:

So you must be born/unborn/ or imaginary

I'm all of these things and none of the things.

 

 

[JuliusCaesar]

3 minutes ago, IamYou said:

So why are you claiming that you don't exist?

Let's try it this way, what makes you think they exist?

[IamYou]

@JuliusCaesar Okay if your perspective is as you say it is then what color is my blender in my kitchen? 

[IamYou]

6 minutes ago, JuliusCaesar said:

Let's try it this way, what makes you think they exist?

I don't believe/disbelieve. I'm trying to find out.

[Kksd74628]

@IamYou

You can't find answer to the question, that are others your imagination, by asking that from your imagination characters. They may either say that they exist or not and you didn't progress even the lenght of centimeter. What you have to do is to understand that your thoughts are happening inside your present moment and even the thought that others may exist even if I am not thinking them is another thought which happens inside present moment.

[JuliusCaesar]

3 minutes ago, IamYou said:

@JuliusCaesar Okay if your perspective is as you say it is then what color is my blender in my kitchen? 

In my current state, I have limitations similar to your own. However, I have in the past managed to view things beyond my human perception in space/time and then verified that my perceptions were accurate later.

 

The reason that at the moment I can't see the blender in your kitchen is that I imagine that your kitchen doesn't exist from my perspective. Your point of view is currently relegated to the darkness of my unconscious mind.

 

Ask yourself this, consider the possibility of an omniscient being. I know this doesn't exist in your direct experience yet, but just consider it intellectually. If a being knew absolutely everything, then wouldn't that also include the experience of not knowing? But in order to not know, you have to well not know. So in order to know everything, you would have to have experiences where you didn't know everything. You in your current human form don't know everything, which means you could be all-knowing without knowing it right now(because in order to be all-knowing you also have to know what it's like not to know things).

 

 

[IamYou]

12 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

@IamYou

You can't find answer to the question, that are others your imagination, by asking that from your imagination characters. They may either say that they exist or not and you didn't progress even the lenght of centimeter. What you have to do is to understand that your thoughts are happening inside your present moment and even the thought that others may exist even if I am not thinking them is another thought which happens inside present moment.

So do you think I'm imaginary?

[Reciprocality]

If we consider it empirical everything which is of the senses such as light or salt flavour, then what is considered is not the means by which we reference what is considered, it is rather a weak magnitude of the same thing.

You may distinguish the weak and strong magnitude of light as imagination and reality, yet both are equally real in consciousness for the simple reason that they are at all in consciousness.

And so you begin with asking an absurd question, unless what is real is considered more than what is in consciousness.

Perhaps imagination is instead only synthetic intuition (something new and creative more than a composition of empirical magnitudes), and not merely an inner extension of outer sensation. Is it then real? Well you will probably not find an equivalent of this thought in the forest or between rocks, but if that is what is required for something to be real then what is the question even worth? There is apodictic certainty either way, and so the actual question must be whether there is an absolute mind or reality in which your own thoughts are more than your own only, for only in this way can a question of "is it real, is it truth" have meaning.

 

Our reference of things will be an imaginary counterpart to the referenced, containing the same identity. This then can be an exposition of what imagination means, you are imagining the essence of some stone by maintaining its identity without looking at it, if the stone were originally imagined then you would have to invent a second order category for the imagination of its essence, and you would equate empirical intuition with fantasy.

You should be high on  drugs in doing so, you are also making language ridiculously complex if you maintain that theory. 

 

If you understood what I said here, then chances are you could render by means of this understanding some actual restricted questions worth consideration, and even understand to a fair degree a common ground on which to mutually discuss the matter not spinning the tires flat as millions did before you.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Reciprocality