Leo latest video - Ketamine

[axiom]

On 25/04/2022 at 6:12 PM, Leo Gura said:

My worst bad trip was on 4g of mushrooms so I'm hesitant to do high dose mushrooms. It turns into madness for me -- very chaotic and terrifying without much spiritual take-away other than "holy fuck consciousness can be crazy". To me the only value in that is to experience what true madness feels like.

@Leo Gura Trying to lift more than your body is ready for can easily result in a physical injury. When you did the mushrooms you were a sapling compared to what you've become. 5MEO is just about the heaviest weight the mind can lift, so I doubt the mushroom trip would be so disturbing this time around.

That said, the trip protocol I described is phenomenologically absurd in scale. It seems like a different dimension of experience altogether compared to 5MEO. I can very much see why some people believe mushrooms are "alien beacons". I still definitely recommend it. It will probably cause you to re-examine your views regarding psilocybin's potential as a spiritual tool. I think one thing it is very good at is scanning your body / mind to see what you need and what you're ready for. And then it will show you. You may be ready for quite a lot.

My reaction to the protocol was also "Holy Fuck!". Not so much "Holy fuck it's crazy what consciousness is capable of". but more like: "Holy fuck, God is real". And I don't simply mean the universal consciousness made out of the infinite energy of pure unconditional love  It is certainly that, but it also, unbelievably, encompasses the religious concept of God to an unsettling degree.

For instance, it becomes immediately obvious why churches, stained glass, depictions of angels and souls and all of the ecclesiastical paraphernalia looks the way it does. Originally it was designed from memory. It's a visual transcription of the mushroom world / the realm of God's imagination in process. This may be unique to mushrooms, and it's something very much worth seeing / becoming (in my opinion. I'm not sure it's any less profound than 5MEO, but it is a very different aspect of God, a very different flavour. 

Psilocybin therapy is beginning to really take off around the world, and there is a growing interest in this tryptamine specifically in people from all walks of life. If you did a new video on a heroic dose of psilocybin as per the ICL protocol, I think there would be a pretty large influx of people interested in your work, associated opportunities etc. More than you'd expect. Will probably become your most viewed video. For what it's worth.

Here is the ICL playlist I used. Go do it...! https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2mT6LpOU4ipJ0BkoCigAiw

Edited April 28, 2022 by axiom

[Consilience]

On 4/24/2022 at 9:30 PM, Leo Gura said:

What I really want is a spiritual path that takes me where 5-MeO takes me, not where ketamine takes me.

You should look into Mahayana Buddhism and specifically checkout the Flower Garland Sutra/Avatamsaka Sutra. Part of the text describes 10 stages of Bodhisattva development, and towards the upper stages, it starts describing how omniscience is developed and the infinity of the path. Of course the language “God” isn’t used because Buddhism, but as far as grandiosity and acknowledging the absolute, utter infinity and fractal like, interpenetrating nature of reality, it’s unlike any Buddhism Ive ever come across. Reading the book with radical openmindedness is like taking a psychedelic. 

Edited April 29, 2022 by Consilience

[Adamq8]

2 hours ago, Consilience said:

You should look into Mahayana Buddhism and specifically checkout the Flower Garland Sutra/Avatamsaka Sutra. Part of the text describes 10 stages of Bodhisattva development, and towards the upper stages, it starts describing how omniscience is developed and the infinity of the path. Of course the language “God” isn’t used because Buddhism, but as far as grandiosity and acknowledging the absolute, utter infinity and fractal like, interpenetrating nature of reality, it’s unlike any Buddhism Ive ever come across. Reading the book with radical openmindedness is like taking a psychedelic. 

I will look into that book ? thanks for recommending 

[The0Self]

On 4/25/2022 at 2:14 PM, Vincent S said:

I remember watching Ketamine documentary with John Lilly, he mentioned that above 150mg to 250mg range it gets really out of whack.
Do you think going higher than 150mg, might contribute extending the peak duration? I took 220mg Intranasal S-Isomer. Definitely got super extraterrestrial during the onset, And the hole was just the longest thing ever.

Coming back from the trip I was so confused, because I was expecting a 45min trip, not 2-3hrs

Yeah anything above 70-80mg is amazing, but the hole kicks in at a little over 140mg with me, so yeah Lilly's 150mg bottom range makes sense! Perhaps an extremely brief (momentary) k hole peak with a little less (maybe 125mg), but holing for any length of time takes 140-170+ mg, in my experience.

As far as extending the peak duration with higher doses... I'll illustrate, with basic pharmacology, the extent to which that is the case: 1. both r and s (and racemic) ketamine are very short acting and rapidly cleared -- 30 minute half life. 2. it has an intranasal tmax (time to peak concentration) of 15 minutes. Therefore, if you took exactly double the amount of ketamine required to very briefly (momentarily) k-hole at the peak (as in took around 125x2=250mg), you would be coming out of the k hole right at 15+30= T+45min.

I've gone over 200mg in one dose and the hole still never lasted up to the 60 minute mark post-dose. Used 400mg in a sitting once, purposely avoiding actually falling into the hole or completely losing bodily control, while getting as close as possible -- extremely hard non-holing trip that lasted a few hours.

For shits and giggles, if you took quadruple the dose that would theoretically give a momentary k hole peak, 125x4= 500mg (NOBODY EVER TAKE THAT ALL AT ONCE , as if it would even be possible to absorb that much intranasally all at once... and you wouldn't be able to spread it out since you'd be incapacitated), you would be coming out of the k hole right at 15+30+30= 75 minutes. One additional half life (30 minutes) worth of duration per each doubling of the dose.

Maybe some got stuck on a dry spot of your nasal lining and absorbed later? Lol that would be unheard of though. Perhaps a significant amount of the drip was absorbed orally -- that may be what happened as it would have a longer duration than IN, and especially long if gastric emptying was slowed due to recent food intake... <-- If you laid down on your back right away, that could have easily happened -- you always want to keep your head leaning slightly forward after IN administration for as long as is safe (before you must lie down lest you risk injury). If there was still complete lack of possession and control over your completely-still-and-incapacitated material body past the 60 minute mark... I would highly doubt whether it was ketamine... But beyond 2 hours of clock-time?....... If the whole dose was insufflated in one go (or at least within ~10 minutes) I would bet it was a longer acting ketamine derivative -- DCK has been really common, especially around half a decade ago. Unless you have some kind of genetic modulation of how you process ketamine, or had taken something that interferes with its clearance.

On 4/25/2022 at 1:07 PM, Gabith said:

@The0Self I never had the courage to take a high dose 

140+ mg definitely can be quite a harrowing reset. I usually only took around 40-100mg (intranasally). Though I did k hole several times with well over 140mg. Sometimes 400mg in a sitting, but over the course of a few hours, certainly not all at once. 70-100mg is a nice dose for insight, without quite the craziness and potential danger of k holing (140-200+ mg) -- though you still need to lie down... after a significant amount of the stuff absorbs of course (for >2-5 minutes or as long as is safe) while sitting up first with head angled slightly forward or straight (if head is angled back, it drips to your stomach real quick).

Before I got into spirituality, the k hole was completely different to how it presents now. It was like an alien astral projection world with divine entities then, but now (as of a year ago) it's completely indescribable -- infinite; timeless.

Edited April 29, 2022 by The0Self

[Consilience]

2 hours ago, Adamq8 said:

I will look into that book ? thanks for recommending 

I should say it’s incredibly dense and not at all easy to read. But the depth and breadth of the writing is itself a teaching on the vastness of reality, in my view. Ive barely scratch the surface with it. Good luck with it ?

[Vincent S]

27 minutes ago, The0Self said:

Yeah anything above 70-80mg is amazing, but the hole kicks in at a little over 140mg with me, so yeah Lilly's 150mg bottom range makes sense! Perhaps an extremely brief (momentary) k hole peak with a little less (maybe 125mg), but holing for any length of time takes 140-170+ mg, in my experience.

As far as extending the peak duration with higher doses... I'll illustrate, with basic pharmacology, the extent to which that is the case: 1. both r and s (and racemic) ketamine are very short acting and rapidly cleared -- 30 minute half life. 2. it has an intranasal tmax (time to peak concentration) of 15 minutes. Therefore, if you took exactly double the amount of ketamine required to very briefly (momentarily) k-hole at the peak (as in took around 125x2=250mg), you would be coming out of the k hole right at 15+30= T+45min.

I've gone over 200mg in one dose and the hole still never lasted up to the 60 minute mark post-dose. Used 400mg in a sitting once, purposely avoiding actually falling into the hole or completely losing bodily control, while getting as close as possible -- extremely hard non-holing trip that lasted a few hours.

For shits and giggles, if you took quadruple the dose that would theoretically give a momentary k hole peak, 125x4= 500mg (NOBODY EVER TAKE THAT ALL AT ONCE , as if it would even be possible to absorb that much intranasally all at once... and you wouldn't be able to spread it out since you'd be incapacitated), you would be coming out of the k hole right at 15+30+30= 75 minutes. One additional half life (30 minutes) worth of duration per each doubling of the dose.

Thank you for the in-depth explanation <3

28 minutes ago, The0Self said:

Maybe some got stuck on a dry spot of your nasal lining and absorbed later? Lol that would be unheard of though. Perhaps a significant amount of the drip was absorbed orally -- that may be what happened as it would have a longer duration than IN, and especially long if gastric emptying was slowed due to recent food intake... <-- If you laid down on your back right away, that could have easily happened -- you always want to keep your head leaning slightly forward after IN administration for as long as is safe (before you must lie down lest you risk injury). If there was still complete lack of possession and control over your completely-still-and-incapacitated material body past the 60 minute mark... I would highly doubt whether it was ketamine... But beyond 2 hours of clock-time?....... If the whole dose was insufflated in one go (or at least within ~10 minutes) I would bet it was a longer acting ketamine derivative -- DCK has been really common, especially around half a decade ago. Unless you have some kind of genetic modulation of how you process ketamine, or had taken something that interferes with its clearance.

That is probably why. I just passed out shortly after snorting it, and fell on the bed. I noticed a lot of "dripage" and a lot of saliva + drip filling my air canals, (sorry for being jucky) but I lost complete motor function, and I was drooling/swallowing loads of the drip.
I took it just after I woke up and brushed my teeth. Usually psychedelics hit me harder on an empty stomach. And I snorted all of it in one go.

I mean, I didn't test the batch, forgive me for being reckful, but my plug did say its really "potent" and I believed the guy. He mentioned a lot of customers saying that it was "this time it was something else" and really strong. It might have been something else. I would have to prob send it in for a test.

 

[gettoefl]

@leogura

this thread is worth a look ... elon musk replies and mentions ketamine