How to hold frame?

[StarStruck]

So approached these two German ladies, and we started talking about regular stuff and one thing let to another and they offered me a threesome. My state totally collapsed and I was just stuttering and was all timid/quiet. This happened to me couple of times before but never in this fashion. I think I messed up. I still have their numbers though.

im trying to understand what is happening here? My ego getting out of the safe zone or my limiting beliefs kicking in? This pattern happens everything I’m having success  it feels like I don’t have control over myself at these moments. The more control I want to exercise the cringier it gets  

What I learned is this: Pickup is just foreplay. What I did today was just let go of all resistance and just go balls deep but with good foreplay and emotional spiking beforehand. 
 

 

[Leo Gura]

Rarely a girl will just be sexually explicit and blunt with you.

For example, you might be talking to a girl and then she just says something out of the blue like: "So are you gonna fuck me real good?" or "I'm horny" or "I'm wet" or "I want to fuck". This is very rare, but it does happen and you should be ready to capitalize on that without flinching. I've lost a few girls in the past by flinching because it just takes you so by surprise because it's a rare thing for a girl to say. You have to not flinch and just play it cool. Don't get too eager but also lead directly for the close.

You can also adopt the girl frame by saying a line like: "Easy there... I'm not just a peace of meat. I need to romanced first. You have to promise to buy me chocolates ".

The "promise to buy me chocolates" line is a stroke of pickup genius! It's such a powerful frame control . If a girl is coming on to you, make her promise to buy you chocolates

[StarStruck]

@Leo Gura I was getting the phone number of the one with the crop top and the other was equally cute.  Perhaps even cuter. She said you are not going to get her number too(from the other girl)? I said “what? you guys want a threesome?” And they giggled and said yes. I’m still not sure if they are serious but if they were they aren’t going to bend over backwards for a timid nerd which I revealed by flinching haha. I don’t even want a threesome. One is enough. 

Edited April 23, 2022 by StarStruck

[Leo Gura]

It's usually a bad idea to number close two girls at once. Looks weird and desperate as fuck. Pick one girl to be your main.

They could have been trolling you. Could have been a shit test. When a girl brings up sex don't jump on the bait like a starving dog. Play it cool.

[Someone here]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You can also adopt the girl frame by saying a line like: "Easy there... I'm not just a peace of meat. I need to romanced first. You have to promise to buy me chocolates  ".

The "promise to buy me chocolates" line is a stroke of pickup genius! It's such a powerful frame control . If a girl is coming on to you, make her promise to buy you chocolates 

Why ?what's so special about this statement? 

[SeekingFreedom]

11 hours ago, Someone here said:

Why ?what's so special about this statement? 

@Someone here it flips the script and shows the girl that your fun, flirty and not desperate. (Which is attractive to females) 

Edited April 24, 2022 by SeekingFreedom

[Spiral]

1 hour ago, SeekingFreedom said:

(Which is attractive to females) 

I would go as far as to say that is attractive regardless of gender.

[StarStruck]

Rigidity is not good but having no skeleton and being a clown is not good either. The phrase "buy me chocolates" won't even work if it is not delivered the right way. Especially if it is done in a clownesque way, instead of a confident way.

Holding frame is nonverbal, it is staying energetically grounded. From this place you can get away with a lot. If you are energetically reaching, it is creepy, you will be seen as an energetic beggar.

The basic enemy of being grounded is fear. For me, my fear is messing up the set, which I (probably) did by fearing it. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Testosterone (which is in the body) will they you what to say and what to do but you have to keep grounded in the body, if you start fearing you lose contact with - your balls - and move up in your head.

With pickup you basically want to stay in attack mode, not defence mode but at the same time you also have to be receptive to see how much you can escalate to not over-escalate. Shit test, which this thread is basically about, are basically to see if you can hold your ground.

Edited April 24, 2022 by StarStruck

[StarStruck]

I got friendzoned by her as expected. I would have been a miracle if she didn’t after I flinched and acted shy at the end. She is still up to hang out as friends. 

Energy/vibe one radiates and frame is so important. Before pickup I was totally blind for this. I’m not even angry, disappointed and sad about this happening. I get it. 

The difference between men and women

• We males just get off from a girls physical beauty. 
• Females get off from the vibe of the guy and if you don’t have the vibe you just become an annoying dildo that doesn’t understand her needs.

Females have an over abundance from guys to pick from so they pick the ones with the qualities that they don’t have themselves: masculine confident character traits. 

As girls they understand our needs and that is why they wear crop tops and makeup and shit. As guys we should understand their needs too. It is simple as that. 

Edited April 24, 2022 by StarStruck

[Ulax]

Can't give advice.

But respect for the process it seems you've made.

[puporing]

22 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You can also adopt the girl frame by saying a line like: "Easy there... I'm not just a peace of meat. I need to romanced first. You have to promise to buy me chocolates ".

Gawd you're such a nerd.

1 hour ago, StarStruck said:

Females have an over abundance from guys to pick from so they pick the ones with the qualities that they don’t have themselves: masculine confident character traits. 

Not really true in my experience, most attractive/masculine men are in strict monogamous relationships and do not branch out from this. So if you're attractive and available you stand out a lot actually.

1 hour ago, StarStruck said:

Energy/vibe one radiates and frame is so important.

Also very dependent on what kind of girl you're trying to attract.. if you want a sexual woman you should also be more sexual and not be afraid to express it.

 

[Leo Gura]

9 hours ago, StarStruck said:

As girls they understand our needs and that is why they wear crop tops and makeup and shit.

Girls don't understand a guy's needs so well. Often they don't even care about our needs. They dress up nice because it's helpful for attracting guys and boosting their own self-esteem -- and it's just baked into the culture.

Yes, you should understand a girl's needs more. This is very good.

But a girl's needs are actually much deeper than vibe. Vibe can often be a facade that doesn't really met her needs. But of course she doesn't have much else to evaluate you on but vibe when you first meet, so vibe is crucial early on.

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Females have an over abundance from guys to pick from so they pick the ones with the qualities that they don’t have themselves: masculine confident character traits.

That's not why they pick masculine guys. They pick masculine guys because the feminine needs the masculine and vice versa. It's not about abundance. High femininity requires high masculinity to ground it. And the kind of girls you're probably attracted to tend to be highly feminine. The feminine tries to optimize from its end and the masculine tries to optimize from its end.

Yes, broadcasting masculine vibe and energy is huge for attracting girls. That's like bait for the feminine. The feminine is always sniffing around for some genuine masculinity to wrap itself around.

[StarStruck]

@Leo Gura  I guess they don't need to understand our needs.

In a PUA I think the vibe is the point of contact between male and the female. It is what she judges the male on. Internally the male could the masculine but if it can't broadcast it it doesn't have an effect. Vibe is also a snapshot of your personality and you get judged on it without mercy: especially in the beginning.

I befriended an obnoxious pickup guy who is a natural and he has zero game and just rolls on confidence/vibe/masculinity.  It was such an eye opener. All the things I thought I had to be were false. It was a humbling experience too because this guy has nothing going for him and they still chose him. He just blasts his vibe onto the girl, holds frame and keeps the vibe going. That last part I have trouble with and I think it is just a matter of exercise, presence and experience.

14 hours ago, puporing said:

Also very dependent on what kind of girl you're trying to attract.. if you want a sexual woman you should also be more sexual and not be afraid to express it.

 

This is what I meant. I want to get this PUA frame down before I will look for a serious relationship.

[Gesundheit2]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

High femininity requires high masculinity to ground it.

If this was true, then logical nerds would be the most attractive, but they aren't.

Femininity doesn't require grounding, it requires containment. Think about hypergamy in terms of personality. Grounding is hypogamy, which is not attractive.

The feminine wants to expand in the limits of the masculine, but for that to happen, the masculine must be bigger than the feminine.

[puporing]

9 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

The feminine wants to expand in the limits of the masculine, but for that to happen, the masculine must be bigger than the feminine.

[Leo Gura]

9 hours ago, StarStruck said:

I befriended an obnoxious pickup guy who is a natural and he has zero game and just rolls on confidence/vibe/masculinity.  It was such an eye opener. All the things I thought I had to be were false. It was a humbling experience too because this guy has nothing going for him and they still chose him. He just blasts his vibe onto the girl, holds frame and keeps the vibe going.

Yes, of course, but that IS the core of game.

Modern game theory was reverse-engineered from naturals.

Your state and vibe are everything. If you are in the right state you can get girls so easily and if you're in the wrong state nothing you say will work. You must learn to enter into a fun, extroverted, carefree state. The kind of state you get while partying with friends on alcohol. This is the key. The rest is little ways of increasing your odds of closing.

9 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

If this was true, then logical nerds would be the most attractive, but they aren't.

Nerds do not exude masculinity.

Quote

Femininity doesn't require grounding, it requires containment.

Grounding and containment are the same in my lexicon. The feminine is contained by anchoring it. You can think of it as tethering an open fire-hose.

[somegirl]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Your state and vibe are everything. If you are in the right state you can get girls so easily and if you're in the wrong state nothing you say will work. You must learn to enter into a fun, extroverted, carefree state. The kind of state you get while partying with friends on alcohol. This is the key.

Can confirm.

[Ninja_pig]

On 4/23/2022 at 0:29 PM, StarStruck said:

My state totally collapsed and I was just stuttering and was all timid/quiet.

What is this whole concept about "state"? Always have the mindset that you are a 100/100 attractive male. Think about it, you are. You're the shit. You do cool shit, you look good, you know how to give a girl a good time. Always go into interactions with this mindset. This whole concept about state is poisonous, counter productive, and wrong. To maintain your frame, have a deep understanding of who you are and what you want. Make it so nothing in the world could ever make you doubt yourself, especially the shit test of two broad German girls. This is what women are fundamentally attracted to in my opinion. Always be self-assured. 

[something_else]

6 minutes ago, Ninja_pig said:

What is this whole concept about "state"? Always have the mindset that you are a 100/100 attractive male. Think about it, you are. You're the shit. You do cool shit, you look good, you know how to give a girl a good time. Always go into interactions with this mindset. This whole concept about state is poisonous, counter productive, and wrong. To maintain your frame, have a deep understanding of who you are and what you want. Make it so nothing in the world could ever make you doubt yourself, especially the shit test of two broad German girls. This is what women are fundamentally attracted to in my opinion. Always be self-assured. 

That's a nice pipe dream but realistically you're going to have good and bad days. This is kind of the 'just believe in yourself' advice which isn't all that practical

Talking about state and how to build it is far more practical and useful than telling people to just feel good all the time. Sometimes it helps to do things to put yourself in a good state of mind for socialising

[StarStruck]

@Ninja_pig I think state is a snapshot like you say

Self-image is really what matters. State is just a momentary expression of your self-image.  

A girl’s shit test is just to see the validity of your self-image. If you buckle after some insinuation of the possibility of some tail, you failed the validity test. The same way we don’t want counterfeit money, she doesn’t want a guy with a counterfeit personality.  
 

I don’t even blame myself for the collapse of my state at that moment. These girls were 8/10 and 9/10. It was far out of my self image (and what I think I deserve at this point) for things to succeed. Also I don’t al have a lot of experiences approaching two girls. I usually approach only one girl.