You need to meditate HOURS back to back continuously!

[The0Self]

15 hours ago, Raze said:

Shinzen Young is working with scientist to make technology that makes meditation far more effective. He said when he uses it it’s like a full retreat in 10 minutes.

Purposely doing only-concentration meditation can also move things along at an intolerably slow rate, relative to including noting, etc. Investigating what's true, vipassana, noting, etc can move things along very quickly.

Edited April 25, 2022 by The0Self

[Leo Gura]

42 minutes ago, Raze said:

Shinzen Young is working with scientist to make technology that makes meditation far more effective. He said when he uses it it’s like a full retreat in 10 minutes.

That's the kind of stuff we need.

An EEG machine basically does that. But still, meditating with an EEG involves plenty of work.

The thing is, when you're meditating rigorously it's exhausting work. It's not fun and relaxing. At least not until you get really good at it, then it can become effortless. But it doesn't start out effortless.

In the future we'll probably have some kind of brain surgery that just makes you great at effortless meditation without any practice. Until such time, teaching kids while they are young is probably the best way.

[Yali]

@Leo Gura Does Shinzen meditiate with an EEG?

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Yali said:

@Leo Gura Does Shinzen meditiate with an EEG?

I don't see why he'd need it.

[Yali]

@Leo Gura If it makes meditiation more effective, wouldn't he use it?

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Yali said:

@Leo Gura If it makes meditiation more effective, wouldn't he use it?

He is advanced enough to not need it.

Once you are good enough at mediation you won't benefit from an EEG.

[Yali]

25 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

He is advanced enough to not need it.

Once you are good enough at mediation you won't benefit from an EEG.

Have you outgrown the need for an EEG? @Leo Gura

[Raze]

8 hours ago, Benton said:

Could you link to this? What tech is he using?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spukj-4sYS0

he talks about it after 1 hour 36 min here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsc097a5lJ0

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Raze

[gettoefl]

my goal is 4-hr morning sits, nearly there, i do nothing with goal being no effort, when i attain no effort, i up the timer another 30 minutes, it goes much easier these warm 6 months of the year, cant report anything mystical or miraculous but i can say it is pretty much impossible for me to have a bad day

[Kensho]

What if scientists found a way to work with the DMN chemically? 

Meditation has certain measurable effects on the brain. We know the regions affected.

If science starts to take metaphysics seriously, wouldn't it be possible to develop medication that after a period of usage, brought the brain's chemistry to the same level as that of an enlightened yogi? Even having the effects of a permanently weakened ego, like on shrooms, but being 100% sober and functional, would be amazing. 

[Leo Gura]

16 minutes ago, Kensho said:

If science starts to take metaphysics seriously, wouldn't it be possible to develop medication that after a period of usage, brought the brain's chemistry to the same level as that of an enlightened yogi? Even having the effects of a permanently weakened ego, like on shrooms, but being 100% sober and functional, would be amazing.

I doubt that some pill would ever be enough. It's more complicated than that.

What's realistic is to implant a tiny device which is able to generate and release a tiny trickle dose of DMT inside the brain similar to a pacemaker. The issue there would be, what would be the tradeoffs? The problem is that states of higher consciousness make survival tasks more challenging.

[WelcometoReality]

18 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Meditation in school. Get them young.

That would most certainly change the world for the better. ?

[Thought Art]

@A_v_E Hmmm there a definitely side effects to these substances…

But I think they are overall safe if used responsibility. Your not gonna have withdraw from a single trip. Many pyches are anti addictive too.

[Thought Art]

@A_v_E There may be both physical and mental side effects. However, I think most psychedelics when used properly are overall okay. Even foods have side effects. Even something like Qigong or yoga, or shamanic breathing can have side effects.

So can telling the truth it saying “I love you”

[Egzoset]

23 hours ago, A_v_E said:

please don't answer with a delusion of " there is no withdrawal"

OKay, i won't.  There are only imbéciles...

[ardacigin]

On 25.04.2022 at 4:14 AM, Leo Gura said:

That is precisely what makes meditation so inaccessible.

99.9999% of people will not / cannot do that.

Yet people are sold the fantasy that meditating for 30 mins a day will get them somewhere deep.

If you are willing and able to meditate rigorously for 4-8 hrs per day, congrats, you are in the top 0.0001% and you will probably have huge gains. But also, how can you expect most humans to do this? There has to be some better way otherwise mankind will remain asleep forever.

The bitter truth is that mind and brain is such a complicated system is that their deep transformation requires mindfulness + emotional training + purification + sustained positive feedback loops + holding of clear intentions etc. Now you can try to do all of this process in 30 mins sit daily but that is not realistic when the rest 23 hours of the day is spent in pure unconsciousness of the truth.

To make this process work, you commit to hours of deep meditation back to back and actually ENJOY the process of doing so. See, I think we need to step back a bit. People misunderstood the starting point of this article.

You can't decide to meditate 4-5 hours both informal and formal continuously in any given day  when each time you sit to meditate, your mind feels bored, resistant and unable to figure out how to actually be more conscious aka the natural state of all beginning meditators.

The initial challenge is to develop enough consciousness in short bursts of training (30 mins - 1 hour), training attention and awareness to work harmonically, strengthening the ability to stay present and to know the states of the mind (frustration, boredom, joy) and to take correct mental actions with clear intentions to disrupt this habitual cycle.

This simple process I've described above is already insane levels of training to your mind, strengthening conscious energy and power even if for mere 15 mins to do continuously. The problem is that you want to do that, but you simply don't have the skills yet to do it.

Once your meditations arrive at this quality, you'll have an intuitive feeling along the lines of:

'Wow! Meditation is EXTREMELY healthy for my consciousness. It actually allows me to see consciousness for what it is, reducing self-perception at a greater level each sit. Literally truth is slowly unveiling in each moment at a deeper level. Im also suffering A LOT less and experiencing a LOT more joy and pleasure.'

Then you spend some time doing your favourite activities with normal habitual forces (without mindfulness) and then introspect:

'My life is just incomparably better with mindfulness. What the hell was I doing? The obsessive quality of the mind is such a clear roadblock. It is better to integrate more of my formal session quality to cooking, jerking off and watching tv shows'

 That is where continuous multiple hours a day practice (both formal and informal) will get you to the next tier of development. 

You can have the same realization as a complete beginner but that won't take hold and signal enough parts of your complicated mind to change your perceptions and attitudes regarding meditation. You will want to love meditation but 95% of your other sub-minds won't be convinced.

See, there is no actual alternative here. The alternative is spinning your wheels for 20 years, half assing meditation and literally having close to nothing at the end of those 20 years.

Whatever emotional trauma you fear you need to face while committing this training (going on a retreat, disciplining yourself etc) is nothing compared to potentially lost 20 years you could utilize being more conscious of the truth.

After a while, zero disciplining of any kind will be necessary. Your mind wont even process information like you used to.

Absolute effortlessness will pervade each moment but until then, the so called 'self help' discipline will help you push through certain resistances until they don't. Thats when you make the switch to other methods that are useful and just keep on going.

See, this process is fun. Your mind currently struggles so much with 'What the hell should I do in meditation' that you suck out all aspects of interest, joy and curiousity of the training that only pure torture is left. A feeling that your own mind generates and gets in the way of its progress, making the training 100x harder. 

Edited May 8, 2022 by ardacigin

[RMQualtrough]

What's the point? Waste of time lmao.

[ardacigin]

Just now, RMQualtrough said:

What's the point? Waste of time lmao.

Well, let me rephrase everything that any psychedelic user can relate to:

'Imagine experiencing LSD for the rest of your life on demand'

That LSD turns into DMT and then 5meoDMT as decades go by with continuous practice. You have no understanding of what you are missing out on by not taking meditation seriously.

[RMQualtrough]

6 minutes ago, ardacigin said:

Well, let me rephrase everything that any psychedelic user can relate to:

'Imagine experiencing LSD for the rest of your life on demand'

That LSD turns into DMT and then 5meoDMT as decades go by with continuous practice. You have no understanding of what you are missing out on by not taking meditation seriously.

First thing I thought after a breakthrough was what a waste of time that sort of thing is...

A whole lifetime spent sitting in silence and all of that is wiped without reward or any point to it at all, because obviously no remnant of any of your life or personality or behaviors or discipline remains when you are gone. The evil deeds of Adolf Hitler and your time spent meditating and being spiritual are completely wiped away, and neither of those individuals or any of their actions or deeds or thoughts etc exist at all anymore.

Decades of just sitting there for payoff which, ironically you can't ever possibly receive, since you vanish the moment it is achieved... That's a rigged game.

I would agree with Leo really. Just do some drugs if insanely curious enough, then fllush the lot and get on with life as a human.

[RMQualtrough]

On 25/04/2022 at 2:54 AM, Carl-Richard said:

Meditation in school. Get them young.

Tbh the people I've told certain things to, did not like what was said. I did not like certain realizations gleamed from what these things try to edge people to. When someone has actually got what I said, they can become frightened and keep bringing it up because they are scared of the possibility.

They make me feel like Satan in the Mysterious Stranger where the main character is horrified by Satan revealing he (the protagonist) is completely alone in existence. The character is "appalled" lmao.