You need to meditate HOURS back to back continuously!

[ardacigin]

I'm seeing a common pattern in all spiritual students these days (which includes most of my students). 

'I've done lots of psychedelics. I have been meditating for a few years with relative consistency. I do have solid experiential glimpses of some of the insights spiritual teachers talk about. But I feel like no progress has been made 99% of any given day. No access to clear understanding and truth. My normal state of consciousness even after meditating is extremely poor. I don't know what to do and I'm starting to get sick of this perpetual cycle my mind dwells in.'

First of all, let's get the essential ingredient out of the way. If you are working with wrong intentions, techniques and can't execute them exactly as the instructions ask you to, then you won't get anywhere even after 40 years of meditation.

Make sure you get this right. It is the first step.

But let's assume you do understand the instructions and know what exact skills you are developing and aiming for; so now what?

The understanding of how the process of meditation unfolds - having some baseline skills - by itself, won't result in deep transformation. Potential for backsliding exists in each moment without permanent awakening.

It is definitely a challenging aspect of this journey and you should smell the roses if you arrive at 'I can finally do this meditation thing. It actually unveils the illusions of my mind' but once that is circumvented, you need to actually do HOURS of high-level meditation back to back to consolidate insights, strengthen awareness and integrate the truth to each and every activity you enjoy doing.

Absolute understanding will already integrate and consolidate the spiritual insights into daily life. But that process requires some nudging in the right directions via cultivation of healthy mental habits: The reduction of craving and self-perception. Also, contemplation will be needed in the future for further exploration.

To do that, you cant 'half-ass' the training. Only after 4-8 hours straight high level practice daily will you start moving the needle and creating some inertia.

----

I'm a fairly laid-back guy and maybe some of the instructions I give may appear too 'rigid' or 'disciplined'. That is because to get any of the benefits of this path, you need to apply yourself. But you need to do this process with a smile on your face.

After developing the baseline skills, you will have EXTREMELY high levels of motivation to meditate in each moment, in each activity. In fact, you'll sacrifice time you'd prefer indulging in your most enjoyable hobby to meditate more and enhance consciousness. 

After arriving at that pioint, keep riding the momentum and practice HOURS back to back each day. Go deeper and resist the temptation to rest on your accomplishments. You'll be glad you did.

Hope this motivates some of you who are stuck in a rut. Maybe more attention to detail must be given by teachers letting students know how much they are missing out on by dwelling in 'normal' states of consciousness distorted by countless mental illusions.

Much love,

Arda

 

 

Edited April 23, 2022 by ardacigin

[Michal__]

Definitely. But you don't need 8 hours everyday.

3 - 4 hours everyday + all day mindfulness is enough to achieve what you're describing. And maybe longer once in a while.

[ardacigin]

2 hours ago, Michal__ said:

Definitely. But you don't need 8 hours everyday.

3 - 4 hours everyday + all day mindfulness is enough to achieve what you're describing. And maybe longer once in a while.

Informal daily practice included in 8 hours. Ideally, you need to meditate continuously from waking up to going to bed.

[The0Self]

At a certain level of skill, it's almost hard not to meditate 4 hours a day. If you can enter jhana or samadhi at will, you'll likely be doing so quite a lot. Until then, to get to that point, I'd say it takes several months of at least an hour or two sit a day (practicing for the entire sit; only having intermittent mind-wandering for the first few weeks or however long) plus focused intent throughout the day. That's not the same thing as awakening, but it certainly won't hurt and indeed will likely be extremely fruitful.

Edited April 23, 2022 by The0Self

[Thought Art]

If you have that time... Personally I meditate 45 minutes to 1 hr a day, plus about the same in Qigong. I have books to read, finances to account for, a business to build. I will do some retreats in coming years when I can afford it. 

[BipolarGrowth]

There certainly is a cumulative gain that occurs when practicing very consistently for hours or most of each day. Although this is the case, I think the level of quality of meditation is more important than how much you do. 
 

I could’ve meditated for hours 2-3 years ago and gotten less out of it than meditating now for 15 minutes. It’s pretty clear in my specific case that psychedelics had a large role in this. Without them, I’d probably just be spinning my wheels getting hardly nowhere with meditation. 
 

I’ll also say that I see sitting meditation practice as heavily overrated and practice outside of formal sits as being heavily underrated. Mindfulness throughout the day is crucial. 

[Thought Art]

I personally think long sits are really powerful and look forward to doing more... but it's limited if you don't practice Qigong.

[Kksd74628]

@ardacigin

1 minute ago, BipolarGrowth said:

Mindfulness throughout the day is crucial.

Was just about to say exact same thing, but @BipolarGrowth did it already ?. It's just that nowadays I don't even have any schedules to meditate, because even existing and noticing the world is enough. Because I actually like just chilling then that happens almost automatically and I have came to the conclusion that there actually is no difference between meditation and "non-meditation" aka mindlfulness. The concentration kind of happens automatically and because of that I don't even see how you couldn't be meditating 24/7.

[WelcometoReality]

2 hours ago, BipolarGrowth said:

I’ll also say that I see sitting meditation practice as heavily overrated and practice outside of formal sits as being heavily underrated. Mindfulness throughout the day is crucial. 

 

2 hours ago, Kksd74628 said:

Was just about to say exact same thing, but @BipolarGrowth did it already ?. It's just that nowadays I don't even have any schedules to meditate, because even existing and noticing the world is enough.

Yes I can only agree. Never been much of a formal sitter myself. I did do a 3 hour SDS which pushed me over the edge but mostly non-formal meditation, mindfulness and surrender. Now it seems like life is happening within meditation.

[Kksd74628]

@WelcometoReality

That's because everything is automatical. Try to move your hand and while "doing" it tell me how you produce the action. You may see that you can't even start explaining it, because you don't have any clue how you did it. The reason is simple, you are not doing it, because even the manual things you think you are doing, happen automatically. With the same logic even your concentration is automatical. Understanding what I just said makes you see why meditation doesn't make any sense when you are advanced enough, because you are at where you try to go already : )

[WelcometoReality]

10 hours ago, Kksd74628 said:

@WelcometoReality

That's because everything is automatical. Try to move your hand and while "doing" it tell me how you produce the action. You may see that you can't even start explaining it, because you don't have any clue how you did it. The reason is simple, you are not doing it, because even the manual things you think you are doing, happen automatically. With the same logic even your concentration is automatical. Understanding what I just said makes you see why meditation doesn't make any sense when you are advanced enough, because you are at where you try to go already : )

Yes, another gateway into seeing it is to be conscious of all the things you do effortlessly in a day. Usually it's done while thinking about something else so you're not conscious of it but being conscious of it while it's being done can spark the realization that things are just happening. That can then carry over to the things that is done with effort and that even effort is just happening.

[The0Self]

By the way, if you're just doing "concentration" (stillness; happiness; blissfulness; steadiness; samadhi; jhana) meditation to get into those wonderful expanded states, stillness, and jhanas... you can do that all day for months, or even an hour a day for years (or even a whole 10 day retreat of 18 hours a day), and still never reach jhana... or if you do reach jhana you might only develop the ability to feel insanely good -- on demand maybe, if you're really skilled... But concentration meditation will never ever lead to awakening. If you're not investigating experience, you might not get much insight. If you're having a difficult time reaching jhana (the inflection point where meditation becomes preposterously fun and blissful), perhaps try noting -- Mahasi method or just noting experience (preferably aloud, once per second, for a full hour at first -- this can blast you right through a plateau like nothing else) by using the 4 foundations of mindfulness... I like Kenneth Folk's guide to noting more than any other. The insight stages (mind and body, arising and passing away, dissolution, dark night, equanimity, etc) are indeed real, and when you're able to clearly move up and down that ladder (you actually feel it and can clearly identify the stages/states), jhanas become far easier, as you'll find specific jhanas correlate to specific nanas (insight territories).

 

Check out these links:

https://kennethfolkdharma.com/quick-start-guide/

http://insanebraintrain.blogspot.com/2013/10/meditation-practice-journals-from-old.html

"Every time you discover the "problem" with your meditation, note your reaction to that thought. Note the thought itself. Note once per second, aloud, for the duration of your sitting. Note catastrophizing, dramatizing, histrionics, self-pity, evaluation thoughts, impatience, despair, self-loathing, joy, triumph, scenario spinning, longing, desire for deliverance, irritation, doubt, bliss, absorption, distraction, fear, anger, rage, disgust, euphoria, hope, contentment, anticipation, softness, hardness, coolness, warmth, pulsing, burning, itching, throbbing, stinging, tingling, hearing, seeing, tasting, smelling, pleasant, unpleasant, neutral, petulance, futility, dullness, fatigue; what have I left out? Of course you would like some kind of a shortcut or a tip. There is no such thing. There is only the mastery of this simple technique. By the time you master this technique, you will be an arahat. If you distract yourself from this technique by trying to tweak the recipe, the warrantee is void." Kenneth Folk

^^^ Quote is not from the links provided, I had it saved.

 

The thing is, noting is very hard to start with and get the hang of, but fairly soon it's impossible to deny its power. So don't get caught up in pure concentration, the noting/investigation will help the concentration practice tremendously. If you think you can investigate effectively without noting, or simply can't believe it works, just try it. There are people who have tried to just get into 1st jhana, for an entire year of intensive meditation, without success... and after a week of noting they get to jhana literally on accident. When you get the hang of noting to the point where it happens automatically temporarily after a sit, you might find yourself avoiding noting, not because it's so hard (it'll be easier at this point), but because the territory it leads to is SO far out and unfamiliar and it's changing your perception so quickly. In my experience, noting is even far more conducive to kundalini explosions than even TMI/TM/TWIM/samadhi/etc... but especially more conducive to awakening, if not necessary for certain kinds of awakening. If you're like me, you'll go through a period of avoiding noting... because it's very easy to delay your awakening by simply avoiding the hard (especially until you get the hang of it) work of noting.

 

Edit: This woman was not getting much progress until she started noting. Lots of concentration practice (left work to meditate many hours a day) but she didn't start popping off until she tried noting. She didn't see the logic behind how noting could possibly work to awaken into truth and end suffering, but this was her last option, and so she took a leap of faith and was pleasantly surprised. She's a physician, and the side effects of doing real noting for a couple hours a day were so intense she self-diagnosed them as simple partial seizures (clearly it was kundalini energy). She starts talking about it around minute 19...

 

Edited April 24, 2022 by The0Self

[Carl-Richard]

I'm going Neo-Advaita on this one: the period of my life where I was the most conscious was after I decided to stop meditating and stop seeking enlightenment. I genuinely didn't want it, and that lowered my defenses to a new level.

[The0Self]

16 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I'm going Neo-Advaita on this one: the period of my life where I was the most conscious was after I decided to stop meditating and stop seeking enlightenment. I genuinely didn't want it, and that lowered my defenses to a new level.

Can very much relate. Though, it was after a whole lot of constant intense practice, so the subsequent release was bound to have some kind of effect. Sort of like how a deload in barbell/athletic training will increase/peak one's strength. Sort of like: when contemplation becomes automatic, stop contemplating.

Edited April 24, 2022 by The0Self

[Carl-Richard]

Just now, The0Self said:

Can very much relate. Though, it was after a whole lot of constant intense practice, so the subsequent release was bound to have some kind of effect. Sort of like how a deload in barbell/athletic training will increase/peak one's strength.

Yep. You also can't will what you want.

[WelcometoReality]

@The0Self Was there any special technique you used for the grasping in the gut?

[The0Self]

5 hours ago, WelcometoReality said:

@The0Self Was there any special technique you used for the grasping in the gut?

I don't think I mentioned that, but yeah something similar almost certainly presented at some point. I probably just ignored it if it wasn't the primary sensation, or if it was the primary sensation and particularly unpleasant, then I just tried to "find" or clearly objectify each sensation that it was comprised of.

[Leo Gura]

On 4/23/2022 at 5:26 AM, ardacigin said:

Only after 4-8 hours straight high level practice daily will you start moving the needle and creating some inertia.

That is precisely what makes meditation so inaccessible.

99.9999% of people will not / cannot do that.

Yet people are sold the fantasy that meditating for 30 mins a day will get them somewhere deep.

If you are willing and able to meditate rigorously for 4-8 hrs per day, congrats, you are in the top 0.0001% and you will probably have huge gains. But also, how can you expect most humans to do this? There has to be some better way otherwise mankind will remain asleep forever.

[Raze]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That is precisely what makes meditation so inaccessible.

99.9999% of people will not / cannot do that.

Yet people are sold the fantasy that meditating for 30 mins a day will get them somewhere deep.

If you are willing and able to meditate rigorously for 4-8 hrs per day, congrats, you are in the top 0.0001% and you will probably have huge gains. But also, how can you expect most humans to do this? There has to be some better way otherwise mankind will remain asleep forever.

Shinzen Young is working with scientist to make technology that makes meditation far more effective. He said when he uses it it’s like a full retreat in 10 minutes.

[Carl-Richard]

41 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There has to be some better way otherwise mankind will remain asleep forever.

Meditation in school. Get them young.