The issue of "god is love "

[Someone here]

Let's just create this fine distinction for the sake of the discussion.. "love" as a pointer.. As a word.. As a four letters appearing on a screen.. And "love" as the actual thing that is being pointed to with the word itself.  The word itself is completely irrelevant.. For a non-English speaker the word is completely meaningless.. And when he hear it.. It is no different than the sounds of the birds .  You have to Tell it to him using his language. And if he awoken to "love" he is gonna call it using his language's equivalent word.. And a Japanese person will use his own Japanese language.. An African person.. And Indian person... And so on.... 

That shows that truly the word itself is meaningless and irrelevant.. And this should be obvious because what is language itself after all?  It is just a set of symbols to represent the world.  The thing that is being represented is what is actual not the word itself.    So whether you look at reality and call it love or not.. It is gonna look exactly the same before and after.. 

In sufism (Islamic mysticism) they have the 99 names of Allah (God).  It contains all sorts of divine qualities such as "the wise".. "the magnificent".. "the all knowing".. The one " etc... But why 99 names??  It should be 100 to be a complete list.!!  And the mystical secret to this is they call the hidden name the" greatest name of Allah ".. That is indeed the actual name the represents the essence of Allah.. And it is kept hidden to say that it is not even a" name " so didn't get stuck on names .. It is beyond names.. The greatest name is not a name.. It is the thing itself which is nameless. 

Edited April 22, 2022 by Someone here

[Gesundheit2]

The problem with the word love is that it has a very specific meaning, so it's not just 4 random letters. Spiritual people claim that this meaning is absolute, and not just relative. They claim that the relative form is derived from the absolute. I think it's the other way around. But I guess it probably doesn't even matter.

Edited April 22, 2022 by Gesundheit2

[Rokazulu]

40 minutes ago, Someone here said:

so didn't get stuck on names .. It is beyond names..

Hey! You brought it up.

[thisintegrated]

What's the problem?  We know exactly what we mean when we say love.

[Carl-Richard]

What you experienced and called love prior to awakening, that is what is multiplied to infinity during awakening. If awakening was like licking an ice cream, then you would call it Absolute Ice Cream.

[thisintegrated]

2 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

What you experienced and called love prior to awakening, that is what is multiplied to infinity during awakening. If awakening was like licking an ice cream, then you would call it Absolute Ice Cream.

ime, at some point love/euphoria get so intense you can't take any more.  idk what 10x more love would do.  You'd go unconscious.

[Leo Gura]

Not correct.

Words are not just labels. They have a far deeper conceptual and semantic content which you have completely overlooked in your anaylsis. And even beyond that there is a metaphysical aspect which is being pointed to.

Love is not just a word from the English language. Nor is it even a human emotion.

You can eliminate the word "sun", but the light will still shine.

[puporing]

What are you even trying to say?  Doesn't seem like you're trying to deny that "love" exists...

[WelcometoReality]

7 hours ago, Someone here said:

Let's just create this fine distinction for the sake of the discussion.. "love" as a pointer.. As a word.. As a four letters appearing on a screen.. And "love" as the actual thing that is being pointed to with the word itself.  The word itself is completely irrelevant.. For a non-English speaker the word is completely meaningless.. And when he hear it.. It is no different than the sounds of the birds .  You have to Tell it to him using his language. And if he awoken to "love" he is gonna call it using his language's equivalent word.. And a Japanese person will use his own Japanese language.. An African person.. And Indian person... And so on.... 

Yeah, all words are empty. "Water" isn't ?. "Water" is just the representation of ? within language, a pointer to the actual thing. Just like @Someone here is a representation of a certain human body.

This extends to thoughts as well. The thought of ? is a pointer to actual ?. And the thought of @Someone here is not @Someone here

7 hours ago, Someone here said:

That shows that truly the word itself is meaningless and irrelevant.. And this should be obvious because what is language itself after all?  It is just a set of symbols to represent the world.  The thing that is being represented is what is actual not the word itself.    So whether you look at reality and call it love or not.. It is gonna look exactly the same before and after.. 

Yes but here it gets tricky because there isn't only an objective world that you see. The world gets filtered through your belief system (thoughts and feelings) of the world. So if you believe the world to be a fearful place then you will see a fearful world. And the same if you believe it to be a wonderful world.

So if you don't like the world you see then you need to change your paradigm with emotional work.

8 hours ago, Someone here said:

In sufism (Islamic mysticism) they have the 99 names of Allah (God).  It contains all sorts of divine qualities such as "the wise".. "the magnificent".. "the all knowing".. The one " etc... But why 99 names??  It should be 100 to be a complete list.!!  And the mystical secret to this is they call the hidden name the" greatest name of Allah ".. That is indeed the actual name the represents the essence of Allah.. And it is kept hidden to say that it is not even a" name " so didn't get stuck on names .. It is beyond names.. The greatest name is not a name.. It is the thing itself which is nameless. 

Ah yes, the names doesn't give it justice because the real Allah is beyond words. It must be realized to be understood.

[Someone here]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Not correct.

Words are not just labels. They have a far deeper conceptual and semantic content which you have completely overlooked in your anaylsis. And even beyond that there is a metaphysical aspect which is being pointed to.

Love is not just a word from the English language. Nor is it even a human emotion.

You can eliminate the word "sun", but the light will still shine.

At first glance, God’s love doesn’t appear to be much of a theological problem. First John 4:8 couldn’t be clearer: “God is love.” Of all the ways to describe God, that is certainly the most endearing and widely-accepted.

How many times have we heard the phrase, “A loving God would never ____”? What that person is really saying is that I have my own idea of what love is, and I will only accept a god who loves on my terms. That is the subtle form of idolatry that many people..even many churchgoers..buy into today.

The issue isn’t whether or not God loves, but whether the people proclaiming His love have the first clue what they’re actually talking about. True, God is love. But let’s not make the egregious error of assuming that’s all He is, or all He wants us to know about Him.

The problem with God’s love, then, is that the discussion of it is being clouded and confused by people who don’t know what love is or who God is, and yet speak with assumed authority on both

[Someone here]

5 hours ago, WelcometoReality said:

Yeah, all words are empty. "Water" isn't ?. "Water" is just the representation of ? within language, a pointer to the actual thing. Just like @Someone here is a representation of a certain human body.

This extends to thoughts as well. The thought of ? is a pointer to actual ?. And the thought of @Someone here is not @Someone here

Yes but here it gets tricky because there isn't only an objective world that you see. The world gets filtered through your belief system (thoughts and feelings) of the world. So if you believe the world to be a fearful place then you will see a fearful world. And the same if you believe it to be a wonderful world.

So if you don't like the world you see then you need to change your paradigm with emotional work.

Ah yes, the names doesn't give it justice because the real Allah is beyond words. It must be realized to be understood.

Yes .I agree 100%

Reminds me of the tao te ching first verse :

The tao that can be told
is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named
is not the eternal Name.

[WelcometoReality]

37 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Yes .I agree 100%

Reminds me of the tao te ching first verse :

The tao that can be told
is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named
is not the eternal Name.

Yeah, great book. ?

My favorite verse is 22

If you want to become whole,
let yourself be partial.
If you want to become straight,
let yourself be crooked.
If you want to become full,
let yourself be empty.
If you want to be reborn,
let yourself die.
If you want to be given everything,
give everything up.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

The problem with God’s love, then, is that the discussion of it is being clouded and confused by people who don’t know what love is or who God is, and yet speak with assumed authority on both

There is no problem with God's Love.

People are just idiots. That's the problem you have identified here

[gettoefl]

love is observed by more consciousness more clarity more compassion more creativity more confidence more curiosity more courage more compassion more connectedness more child-like

god has a love agenda for sure, that is what the scientists call evolution, all is well and is becoming more so

[Rokazulu]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

People are just idiots.

No reason to be so harsh on God.

People might be confused. But, they are not idiots.
All have the potential to realize Enlightenment.
Innately, they are Buddha Mind, innately they are already realized beings.
 

[Leo Gura]

"There are two types of people in the world, complete idiots and those who are not complete idiots." -- Slavoj Zizek

[ZzzleepingBear]

The name is the game. So don't hate the players.

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

There is no problem with God's Love.

People are just idiots. That's the problem you have identified here

Yes I agree. 

What a marvelous truth it is that “God is love” (1 John 4:8). He is neither cruel nor capricious. Because God is simple and not composed of various parts, we know that he does not merely do loving things but that he is love in his very essence. It is impossible for God to be or do anything that is in conflict with love.

God provides a far better definition of love than do parents, a spouse, the entertainment industry, or our own sentiments. So we must have our notions of love shaped by the character of God rather than expect God to conform to our ideas of what love must do in all circumstances. There are times when what love truly is and does (i.e. God’s love) will conflict with what we believe love ought to do. Given that we are both finite and sinful we should expect this sort of gulf between the truth and our expectations.

[Someone here]

2 hours ago, WelcometoReality said:

Yeah, great book. ?

My favorite verse is 22

If you want to become whole,
let yourself be partial.
If you want to become straight,
let yourself be crooked.
If you want to become full,
let yourself be empty.
If you want to be reborn,
let yourself die.
If you want to be given everything,
give everything up.

 Very true.

Beautiful verses full of wisdom . ?