An introduction to systems thinking

[origin]

 

In this video, Joseph Kasser uses many examples to show how to use systems thinking. Very interesting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2022 by origin

[thisintegrated]

This is silly.  You won't turn Yellow from watching vids like this.

And whether you're naturally a systems thinker depends on your information metabolism / MBTI.

 

Tier 1s won't even see that video.  Tier 2s will have nothing to learn from it.  A Yellow wouldn't make such an ill-thought-out video, and a Blue teaching Yellow concepts is just dumb.

 

3/10 for effort.

Edited April 22, 2022 by thisintegrated

[Carl-Richard]

30 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

And whether you're naturally a systematic thinker depends on your information metabolism / MBTI.

Systematic =/= systemic

 

Leo seems to like this one : 

There I make the distinction between analytical and systems thinking. Systematic thinking is more analogous to analytical thinking (and its Cartesian roots).

[zurew]

15 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Leo seems to like this one : 

 

Ohh thats some really good stuff, thanks for sharing it.

[Carl-Richard]

2 minutes ago, zurew said:

Ohh thats some really good stuff, thanks for sharing it.

Hehe np! 

[thisintegrated]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

Systematic =/= systemic

 

Leo seems to like this one : 

There I make the distinction between analytical and systems thinking. Systematic thinking is more analogous to analytical thinking (and its Cartesian roots).

How does it differ from systemic? "systemic thinking focuses on the 'system' as a whole"  ..which is basically holistic thinking.

 

I actually checked the difference between systemic, systematic, and systems, but systems seemed to be by far the most obscure term?‍♂️

But yes, it's systems, even though it's definitely the least correct sounding term, and is only used as the other terms are already taken.  "Systems" is a noun.  The way you think would be "systemic", not "systems".

 

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by thisintegrated

[thisintegrated]

27 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Hehe np! 

Did you just advertise your own content on this forum!??

[Carl-Richard]

19 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

 I actually checked the difference between systemic, systematic, and systems, but systems seemed to be by far the most obscure term?‍♂️

"Systemic" just means "related to systems", meanwhile systems thinking is relational/holistic thinking (thinking about systems, what they are and how they interrelate etc.). The way I understand "systematic" is it's like following a script or a system of operations, which is what the Cartesian method is.

You can think of Systems thinking like a trademark of Fritjof Capra ("the Capran method") the way that the Cartesian method or analytical thinking is a trademark of René Descartes  

 

11 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

Did you just advertise your own content on this forum!??

Haha shamelessly!  It's really just me rediscovering Leo's content from their original source  

[thisintegrated]

3 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

"Systemic" just means "related to systems", meanwhile systems thinking is relational/holistic thinking (thinking about systems, what they are and how they interrelate etc.). The way I understand "systematic" is it's like following a script or a system of operations, which is what Cartesian thinking is.

But that's what systematic is.  Systemic is:  "systemic thinking focuses on the 'system' as a whole"  .."whole" ..basically holistic thinking.

 

And which one sounds right?  "That guy is so systemic!" vs "That guy is so systems!"  

 

3 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Haha shamelessly!  It's really just me rediscovering Leo's content from their original source  

"original source".. Are you suggesting you're the original source for all of Leo's teachings?!?!????

Edited April 22, 2022 by thisintegrated

[Carl-Richard]

1 minute ago, thisintegrated said:

But that's what systematic is.

Systematic is related to schematic, and it often refers to a process. Systemic more often refers to a structure. Anyways, the point is just that there is a difference between looking at something analytically vs. holistically.

[thisintegrated]

1 minute ago, Carl-Richard said:

Systematic is related to schematic, and it often refers to a process. Systemic more often refers to a structure. Anyways, the point is just that there is a difference between looking at something analytically vs. holistically.

 

6 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

But that's what systematic is.  Systemic is:  "systemic thinking focuses on the 'system' as a whole"  .."whole" ..basically holistic thinking.

?‍??‍??‍?

 

But fair enough.  It would be selfish of me if I didn't let you have any wins?

[Carl-Richard]

Just now, thisintegrated said:

 

?‍??‍??‍?

It was a clumsy way of saying that we got stuck on semantics and that we already agree.

 

2 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

But fair enough.  It would be selfish of me if I didn't let you have any wins?

It was a win-win  

[mostly harmless]

-> Niklas Luhmann

Niklas Luhmann – 1995 – Systems theory and post-modernism (English language lecture)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHnbWEYHkd8

 

 

 

 

Free GCAS public Lecture: "Introduction to Luhmann & Systems Theory"

 

 

 

[yetineti]

@thisintegrated You’re being very naive. Spiral dynamics was written by people at stage blue. Certainly not yellow or turquoise.

[thisintegrated]

5 hours ago, mw711 said:

@thisintegrated You’re being very naive. Spiral dynamics was written by people at stage blue. Certainly not yellow or turquoise.

What

[yetineti]

@thisintegrated This is just naive. Pretty sure the authors of spiral dynamics are stage blue. So ‘blue teaching these yellow concepts is just dumb’ is just dumb. 
 

Also yellow thinks can make shitty videos too.

Check out some of Leo’s work a few years ago  

On 4/21/2022 at 6:55 PM, thisintegrated said:

A Yellow wouldn't make such an ill-thought-out video, and a Blue teaching Yellow concepts is just dumb.

[thisintegrated]

16 hours ago, mw711 said:

@thisintegrated This is just naive. Pretty sure the authors of spiral dynamics are stage blue. So ‘blue teaching these yellow concepts is just dumb’ is just dumb. 

I think they're only Blue by their own personal interpretation of the model, which differs slightly to the Guraean version.  A Blue isn't likely to be interested in such models, let alone be the creator of one.  afaik, the people who came up with it simply catalogued distinct stages people seem to go through.  Maybe they really are Blue, maybe their understanding of the model is limited to just their direct observations.  Maybe that's why they don't create SD resources themselves or talk about it at all.  It's possible they don't even understand their own model?‍♂️

So if the Blue creators don't feel confident enough tackling the subject, why should any other Blues?

 

16 hours ago, mw711 said:

Also yellow thinks can make shitty videos too.

Check out some of Leo’s work a few years ago  

Anything in particular?  I've seen some of his gym / pick-up stuff, but they're meant for Oranges and should only be judged from an Orange standpoint.

Edited May 2, 2022 by thisintegrated