I'm having uncontrolled shifts in perception

[Adodd]

Its the same shift everytime. Its happened once while I was driving and very annoyed, irs happened while at an art class, sitting at home and at the grocery store. 

I am very bad at getting whats on my head into words and its especially difficult for me to put this into words so just try to work with me here.

Everything will be normal. Walking down the grocery isle and looking at things on the shelf as I normally would. Then all of a sudden I am still walking down the isle lookong at shelves but a very noticeable shift occurs that makes it almost feel like I'm just watching it happen. Like there's a VR headset on my head of someone else in the store. I still feel there and feel like me and experience is almost the same really but I feel like instead of me doing it is just happening and I'm "behind" it just watching. Like you'd watch a screen. But thats not a perfect metaphor because I'm still there. Like I said it happened once while driving and it didnt interfere with my ability to drive at all, I even happened to be on a busy street. This is kind of a contradictory statement but I felt in control like usual but also felt like "control" was just on autopilot. Everything happening will be the same but I almost feel behind it instead of IN it. I wish i could do a better job of explaining this clearly. It might seem like im playing with words or looking to hard for a spiritual experience or aomething but thats not it. This is a noticeable shift. Clear as day as its happening.Someone told me that this is "pure presence". But that doesnt resonate. I notice it when it comes on but i never notice when it goes away. Yet it does go away.

Edited April 21, 2022 by Adodd

[BipolarGrowth]

Sounds like a degree of “non-doership”

A sign of progress

[Seraphim]

27 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

Sounds like a degree of “non-doership”

A sign of progress

Yes either that or depersonalization:

"Depersonalization-derealization disorder occurs when you persistently or repeatedly have the feeling that you're observing yourself from outside your body or you have a sense that things around you aren't real, or both."

 

[BipolarGrowth]

7 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

Yes either that or depersonalization:

"Depersonalization-derealization disorder occurs when you persistently or repeatedly have the feeling that you're observing yourself from outside your body or you have a sense that things around you aren't real, or both."

 

Basically the same thing, but in the “disorder” people will interpret it as a bad thing and not be prepared for it. 

Edited April 21, 2022 by BipolarGrowth

[WelcometoReality]

@Adodd Seems like non-doership/effortlessness mixed with the observer-state.

[Adodd]

@Seraphim

2 hours ago, Seraphim said:

"Depersonalization-derealization disorder occurs when you persistently or repeatedly have the feeling that you're observing yourself from outside your body or you have a sense that things around you aren't real, or both."

 

I have never heard of that but the description I found sounds pretty spot on only it doesnt feel disturbing at all when it happens. Feels more neutral and I cant imagine it becoming any kind of problematic situation. Also says that it happens mostly in teens and very early 20s. My behavior also doesnt change at all when this happens but it does seem very non-personal(if thats a word.) But i could be wrong. 

Have you had episodes of Depersonalization-derealization disorder?

[Michael Jackson]

@Kksd74628 also has this I think. (?)

[Adodd]

1 hour ago, WelcometoReality said:

@Adodd Seems like non-doership/effortlessness mixed with the observer-state.

@BipolarGrowth @WelcometoReality

3 hours ago, BipolarGrowth said:

Sounds like a degree of “non-doership”

A sign of progress

Am I correct that this is pretty much the realization that "I" am not the doer of what my body does?

I've had this realization before and its clear as day even after only a few mins of meditation. This is more like an actual change in my perception.

Edited April 21, 2022 by Adodd

[Seraphim]

29 minutes ago, Adodd said:

@Seraphim

I have never heard of that but the description I found sounds pretty spot on only it doesnt feel disturbing at all when it happens. Feels more neutral and I cant imagine it becoming any kind of problematic situation. Also says that it happens mostly in teens and very early 20s. My behavior also doesnt change at all when this happens but it does seem very non-personal(if thats a word.) But i could be wrong. 

Have you had episodes of Depersonalization-derealization disorder?

No I haven't. But if it doesn't cause you any problems then it is not a disorder, it's just a feeling/sensation, so don't worry about it  

If I understand it correctly, this is the difference between the two:

Depersonalization: Feeling that you're observing yourself from outside your body.

Non-doership: The sense of self that used to be located in the head behind the eyes is gone.

 

[Adodd]

Is non-doership a permanent shift though or can it be fleeting. 

[Kksd74628]

@Michael Jackson @Adodd

This is exactly what I have been trying to say for a long time It feels like you would be in control, but that whole control thing happens inside the movie which happens automatically. So "you" basically watch movie where there is illusion of control. Next step is to understand that you don't even perceive perceiving. So you empty the perceiver so much that it ceases to exist. 

[Galyna]

@Adodd you are settling in experience of being “silent observer”, which is just awareness becomes aware of itself. It will happen more often, then it will normalcy. Later on, you’ll start noticing another weirdo “thing” - you body will seem like living life on its own. You don’t need to control it. Body will be doing things on its own only for you to notice and recognize that there is no “doer”. But you won’t notice it immediately, the registration of this fact will only be realized post factum!

[Carl-Richard]

I'm sorry, but the preview on the forum front page said "I'm having uncontrolled sh..." 

[cetus]

It has the same sort of feeling as daja-vu. -The "screen" that is. 

 

[BipolarGrowth]

3 hours ago, Adodd said:

@BipolarGrowth @WelcometoReality

Am I correct that this is pretty much the realization that "I" am not the doer of what my body does?

I've had this realization before and its clear as day even after only a few mins of meditation. This is more like an actual change in my perception.

Yes, essentially that is what non-doership is. 
 

There is no such thing as a realization which has zero effect on perception. At least not what I’d call realization. Maybe a new conceptual belief won’t change perception though. 
 

I made a vid with an easy exercise to examine doership vs. non-doership several months ago. It might make things more clear to you. 

Simple Spiritual Technique for Realizing Nondoership + Talk on Middle Paths/Buddhism & My Progress

 

[WelcometoReality]

5 hours ago, Adodd said:

@BipolarGrowth @WelcometoReality

Am I correct that this is pretty much the realization that "I" am not the doer of what my body does?

I've had this realization before and its clear as day even after only a few mins of meditation. This is more like an actual change in my perception.

Yeah, effortless action happens frequently in peoples lives. You've probably gone through the same aisle several times before so no effort was needed to do it. When effortless action happens the mind is free to do other stuff. The difference here is that you were consious of effortless action which means there was either no thoughts or a detachment from thoughts while this was happening. It's meditation spilling over to your day to day life.

[Adodd]

@Kksd74628

15 hours ago, Kksd74628 said:

@Michael Jackson @Adodd

This is exactly what I have been trying to say for a long time It feels like you would be in control, but that whole control thing happens inside the movie which happens automatically. So "you" basically watch movie where there is illusion of control. 

Yes. Exactly. This is what i meant when I said I still had complete control but it seemed to be on autopilot. You said it better. Glad im being understood.

 

16 hours ago, Kksd74628 said:

. Next step is to understand that you don't even perceive perceiving. So you empty the perceiver so much that it ceases to exist. 

And how would one "do" something like that exactly?