Elon Musk should buy Actualized

[zurew]

12 minutes ago, vladorion said:

Scientists are not always right about everything. Do you know how many times science has been wrong?

Point out where they are exactly wrong. 

13 minutes ago, vladorion said:

And yes, you're foolish to fully trust scientists that work for (or are affiliated with) corporations where billions of dollars are to be made and which are connected to the WEF, who are very open about 'using a good crisis' to push their agenda.

You try to put every scientist under one agenda, because it fits your narrative, and it makes the sensemaking of this issue a whole lot of easier, because you don't need to get nuanced about it.

Do you know that there was a big competitions around vaccines, about who can make the best vaccine in the most fast way.

Because of the different vaccines there were different interest that were in the playingfield. Every vaccine maker had the incentive to try to find holes in the other vaccine makers company, methodology etc. Why? Because there is a rivalous  dynamic between them, about who can make the most money.  They would be the first to try to point out the holes in each other's games.

[vladorion]

Quote

Point out where they are exactly wrong. 

Just google "when science was wrong" and you'll get plenty of examples.

5 minutes ago, zurew said:

You try to put every scientist under one agenda, because it fits your narrative, and it makes the sensemaking of this issue a whole lot of easier, because you don't need to get nuanced about it.

Do you know that there was a big competitions around vaccines, about who can make the best vaccine in the most fast way.

Because of the different vaccines there were different interest that were in the playingfield. Every vaccine maker had the incentive to try to find holes in the other vaccine makers company, methodology etc. Why? Because there is a rivalous  dynamic between them, about who can make the most money.  They would be the first to try to point out the holes in each other's games.

I don't see how that contradicts anything. Sure, every corporation wants to make more money and outcompete other corporations.

There's something that connects them though.

You can find all of the 4 main covid vaccine producers here: https://www.weforum.org/partners/

CEO of Pfizer: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/authors/albert-bourla

CEO of Moderna: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/authors/stephane-bancel

CEO of AstraZeneca: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/authors/pascal-soriot

Bill Gates: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/authors/billgates

Anthony Fauci: https://www.weforum.org/people/anthony-s-fauci

etc, all are their “agenda contributors”. Check different people who are pushing vaccine mandates. Most of them you can find as WEF’s agenda contributors. Now, learn what their agenda is and tell me it’s not connected to vaccine mandates, vaccine passports etc.

[Rokazulu]

1 hour ago, zurew said:

 

There is a lower chance to get the virus if you are vaccinated. Lower chance matters a lot, when we are talking about hospitals getting flooded with people ,so other people with issues that is not covid related, can't get sufficient health care.

Again getting back to your original point of "if something is not 100% effective than it need to be thrown out" i think thats not a very good way to evaluate things, since i haven't seen any vaccine or drug that was 100% effective for everyone and in every instance.

It hasn't been proven that it doesn't work. Thats a claim that need to be backed up by data and statistics. Also if it has absolutely no benefit whatsoever, then why most countries are still buying vaccines?

A healthy immune system sounds great on paper, but when we are talking about humanity, you will find people with thousands of issues, and you can't just make a protocol that will work for billions of people regarding to the healthy immune system approach. Also just by having a healthy immune system that does not mean, that you won't go to the hospital when you catch the virus. There were a number of strong people who had a good healthy immune system, and they were working out a lot and even went for competitions but unfortunately some of them had to go to the hospital. So you can reduce you chance of getting into a hospital if you get a healthy immune system, but its nowhere near bulletproof.

Also how realistic it is for society, especially when we are talking about the breakout of the virus, to just quickly change their whole life around, quickly eat healthier ,quickly start working out and so on and so forth. People been getting the 'just get healthier' advice in their life all the time, but most don't want to change or can't change. If you only relying on the immune system part you will count out a lot of people in society.

So the vaccines are  a free quick solution where you can get protection to people who don't want to , or for those who can't get a healthier immune system.

Yes, but where is the evidence that it is a "lower chance"? Especially, if doctors are now saying everyone will 100% be getting the virus whether vaccinated or not. Pfizer, as an example said they could only release the full vaccine data after 55-years.
https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/wait-what-fda-wants-55-years-process-foia-request-over-vaccine-data-2021-11-18/

If countries are still buying the vaccine, it is because they haven't considered looking into the other information out there.
I am not anti-vax! It's just that this has become a political issue involving restrictive mandates and I would like to not have that happen again for the next virus. Choice needs to be the point here. If you continue consuming the same diet suggested in the 1950's, you will likely undergo some type of disease. But, if you believe the vaccine is safe and effective, you should also have access to it.

Also, if you say "you can't just make a protocol for billions of people" then what exactly are the vaccines for? There are more effective strategies that do not involve lockdowns, masks, and mandates. Those have also been shown to increase anxiety, stress (which weakens the immunity) and have caused many more suicides as a result. As well, I don't see any evidence that can back up the claim that it will be more severe if you do not have the vaccine. Especially, since there are billions of people to account for, each with their own health conditions and strength of immune system.



 

Edited April 22, 2022 by Rokazulu

[yetineti]

@Rokazulu Fine zero authority, zero focus. Freedom always everywhere.

Are you seriously questioning whether we need authority at all?

 

[Rokazulu]

6 minutes ago, mw711 said:

@Rokazulu Fine zero authority, zero focus. Freedom always everywhere.

Are you seriously questioning whether we need authority at all?

 

You are the authority. How could it be any other way?
 

[yetineti]

@Rokazulu

It is insultingly stupid to ask whether authority has any positive consequences.

Also, are we having an absolute conversation here or one relative to this forum?

Because if you’re going to propose this forum has less authority and then, at the same time, say you’re your own authority - you’re arguing against yourself.

Not saying authority shouldn’t be wielded careful.

Power needs responsibly. But ride that line then.

Don't flip flop.

Edited April 23, 2022 by mw711

[Rokazulu]

1 minute ago, mw711 said:

@Rokazulu

It is insultingly stupid to ask whether authority has any positive consequences.

Also, are we having an absolute conversation here or one relative to this forum?

Because if you’re going to propose this forum has less authority and then, at the same time, say you’re your own authority - you’re arguing against yourself.

Not saying authority shouldn’t be wielded careful.

Power needs responsibly. But ride that line then.

Don't flip flop.

I asked you: "How you are not your own authority?"
Your answer, just to be clear, is that you felt it was stupid. I would not call anything in God's existence that. My position is that you are not stupid. You can understand the concept.

I am talking from the reader's perspective. "The forum" is not an entity of consciousness that I consider "an authority". Only conscious entities who participate on the forum (aka the reader of these words) is an authority that can be relied upon. You are using your brain not anyone elses.
I mean this is the same thing as saying "You are God" basically.

Understand?

[AminB501]

@xbcc One of the things the kind of people like you don't understand is that, every home has it's own rules. An owner (in a free market economy, which you people worship by the way) has the right to not allow you to enter into his home, business, forum... An example is the people who say, "they removed our rights to travel through covid!", NO! the country who you want to go to, is rejecting your entry. And countries, or "city-states" where less "welcoming" 500 or 1000 years ago. And this is not different at all from the fact that you cannot go to the jungle because wild animals will murder you, or the fact that you can't walk over lava. 

You're trying to enforce rules that don't really exist at all, even in your relative view there's limitations you are overlooking that are of the same nature.

Edited April 23, 2022 by AminB501

[AminB501]

@xbcc You got epistemology, and empiricism for that. You probably don't even know that some of this disciplines even exists, surely those who push you this misinformation have deteriorated your educational system so much that here you are, clueless. 

Edited April 23, 2022 by AminB501

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Rokazulu said:

if there are examples of the vaccine causing problems with people, then that is a serious over-sight to sweep under the rug

It's not being swept under the rug. It's just that those cases are grossly overshadowed by the amount of Covid deaths each day.

When 1000 people are dying per day, excuse us if we don't care about indulging your side-effects.

[Rokazulu]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's not being swept under the rug. It's just that those cases are grossly overshadowed by the amount of Covid deaths each day.

When 1000 people are dying per day, excuse us if we don't care about indulging your side-effects.

And so what is preventing the deaths of COVID, the fully vaccinated or the immune system? Keep in mind, I said "fully vaccinated".

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Rokazulu said:

And so what is preventing the deaths of COVID, the fully vaccinated or the immune system? Keep in mind, I said "fully vaccinated".

Vaccination of course.

Vaccination IS the immune system.

[Rokazulu]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Vaccination of course.

I would like to see a study that makes a difference between Fully vaccinated vs Partially Vacccinated vs Unvaccinated that would show me how you know vaccines are preventing more deaths.

[Danioover9000]

@Rokazulu

19 minutes ago, Rokazulu said:

I would like to see a study that makes a difference between Fully vaccinated vs Partially Vacccinated vs Unvaccinated that would show me how you know vaccines are preventing more deaths.

   Vaccines give a spoiler warning to the immune system to be ready for the virus,whatever kind the vaccine is based on.

   10 plus years later for studies for each case, fully, partly or no vaccines to show how vaccines prevent increases in covid deaths. Leo isn't saying the vaccine will make you immortal against Covid, he's saying the vaccine lowers the death toll significantly. We will have to wait in the future for further research.

   BTW, why have we strayed so far off the maintopic of the thread?

Edited April 23, 2022 by Danioover9000

[Rokazulu]

31 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Rokazulu

   Vaccines give a spoiler warning to the immune system to be ready for the virus,whatever kind the vaccine is based on.

   10 plus years later for studies for each case, fully, partly or no vaccines to show how vaccines prevent increases in covid deaths. Leo isn't saying the vaccine will make you immortal against Covid, he's saying the vaccine lowers the death toll significantly. We will have to wait in the future for further research.

   BTW, why have we strayed so far off the maintopic of the thread?

This topic is tied into the main topic. Discussion can be had.

What I would like to know from you, is how you know "the vaccine lowers the death toll signifcantly"?
 

Edited April 23, 2022 by Rokazulu

[vladorion]

For those who still think vaccines are end all be all for managing the covid pandemic, here's a recent clip from Bill Gates himself.

 

Edited April 23, 2022 by vladorion

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Rokazulu said:

I would like to see a study that makes a difference between Fully vaccinated vs Partially Vacccinated vs Unvaccinated that would show me how you know vaccines are preventing more deaths.

You don't need a study. We have real life. Vaccines have saved millions of lives.

[Rokazulu]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You don't need a study. We have real life. Vaccines have saved millions of lives.

Tell me how you came to that conclusion that it was the vaccine that saved millions of lives and not the immune system.
 

[Danioover9000]

@Rokazulu

38 minutes ago, Rokazulu said:

This topic is tied into the main topic. Discussion can be had.

What I would like to know from you, is how you know "the vaccine lowers the death toll signifcantly"?
 

   I don't see how it's connected to the mainthread, like is it tbe free speech issue? The misinformation in internet?

   Mostly from CNN and other reputable sources, and a few from my own direct experience. Also had an Uncle who caught Covid 3 times, the first 2 times he never had a vaccine, got it when he went bike riding in the Scotland area when this virus was spreading, and suffered terribly. The third time was after he was vaccinated twice and experienced much less suffering from the virus, but the virus was so bad it may have traumatized him. It ain't no cold or flu.

[Hardkill]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You don't need a study. We have real life. Vaccines have saved millions of lives.

“Yeah, but we don’t know enough about the possible long-term negatives effects of these vaccines. We need wait at least 5-10 years....” says the fool.