Is Multiculturism Good? The Problem in Sweden

[Dryas]

Just bring in more wealthier and educated immigrants.

[Leo Gura]

56 minutes ago, Dryas said:

Just bring in more wealthier and educated immigrants.

There is a sort of ethical problem with this approach which I never hear anyone talk about. By leeching the most wealthy, ambitious, and educated people from 3rd world countries we are dooming those countries to remain mired in low development. It's very problematic for many countries when their best people fly off to the US or Europe.

[zurew]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There is a sort of ethical problem with this approach which I never hear anyone talk about. By leeching the most wealthy, ambitious, and educated people from 3rd world countries we are dooming those countries to remain mired in low development.

But most of them don't need to be leeched though. Especially if they are wealthy they have the opportunity to move anywhere they want, unless they  are nationalistic.

[whatishappeningtome]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There is a sort of ethical problem with this approach which I never hear anyone talk about. By leeching the most wealthy, ambitious, and educated people from 3rd world countries we are dooming those countries to remain mired in low development. It's very problematic for many countries when their best people fly off to the US or Europe.

Brain drain. Even in Australia which is a 1st world country obviously, our best and brightest will zoom off to the US or UK in search of higher pay and better jobs. 

[Hello from Russia]

20 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There is a sort of ethical problem with this approach which I never hear anyone talk about. By leeching the most wealthy, ambitious, and educated people from 3rd world countries we are dooming those countries to remain mired in low development. It's very problematic for many countries when their best people fly off to the US or Europe.

That's true, but it's also the case that the most ambitious and educated people are simply growing tired of the endless stream of bs and lack of appreciation in their home countries. So they look for countries who can treat them as they deserve to be treated and that can facilitate good environments for their further growth and creativity

They get what they put in, which is usually close to nothing. Everything is fair, in a sense.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Hello from Russia

[Leo Gura]

19 minutes ago, zurew said:

But most of them don't need to be leeched though. Especially if they are wealthy they have the opportunity to move anywhere they want, unless they  are nationalistic.

Of course no one is forcing them. They leave because they want a better life. But it's not good for the developing countries.

10 minutes ago, Hello from Russia said:

That's true, but it's also the case that the most ambitious and educated people are simply growing tired of the endless stream of bs and lack of appreciation in their home countries.

Sure, of course. But also this makes improving those home countries nearly impossible because everyone who could improve it the best runs away.

I'm not blaming anyone for this, it's just a sorry state of the world.

[Hardkill]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course no one is forcing them. They leave because they want a better life. But it's not good for the developing countries.

Sure, of course. But also this makes improving those home countries nearly impossible because everyone who could improve it the best runs away.

I'm not blaming anyone for this, it's just a sorry state of the world.

If Sweden is much more evolved than America then why aren’t the Swedish as open to racial and ethnic diversity as Americans are?

[bejapuskas]

@Hardkill idk how much the Americans are open to that lol

[Hardkill]

4 minutes ago, bejapuskas said:

@Hardkill idk how much the Americans are open to that lol

We have a lot more racial and ethnic diversity compared to most countries around the world and certainly compared to all European countries. I thought that was why there is a lot more people who believe anti-immigration in many European nations than even those in the USA.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Hardkill

[JTL]

@Leo Gura

On 23.4.2022 at 3:48 AM, Leo Gura said:

Lack of integration is a problem. Immigrants need to be willing to integrate rather than build their own isolated sub-cultures.

Really, the test for whether to accept immigrants should be one based on their willingness to work to integrate. If you are willing to work to integrate then we will accept you, otherwise stay in your homeland and suffer the consequences.

to what degree do you think is fair? e.g demanding someone to give up their religion I dont think is fair.

[ArcticGong]

16 minutes ago, JTL said:

@Leo Gura

to what degree do you think is fair? e.g demanding someone to give up their religion I dont think is fair.

One doesn’t have to give up the entire religion. Just accept core value in the host nations, such as freedom of speech. Most aspects of religious aspect are acceptable, but some will never be like polygamy.

[bejapuskas]

@A_v_E You can deny race yet still benefit from it. That is devilry. Stealing "some minerals" is an understatement. Research more about how much the Indian influence on the global market for example decreased after colonization. You will most likely be shocked just by how much.

If you keep being close minded to questioning your racist biases, expect a warning.

 

[bejapuskas]

@A_v_E  See, race is a construct. Pigmentation can vary. Some black people may be lighter skinned than me, some white people may be darker skinned than me. But race is not just that. Sure, it is an illusion, but people benefit from it and that is a fact. Denying that is not really promoting peace and love. 

You know people who become blind race also become blind to learning about the illusion in which they live, the harmful illusion. I am not saying truth is bad, I am glad you care about the truth here. If they become blind to that, they are left with the conditioning they have been given, which is on average racist or colorist. And that affects everything you do. You might for example assume that everyone on this forum feels comfortable in the same conditions as you do.

About your notion of responsibility... Lets say I steal a bunch of money from Leo and then give it to you without telling you it is from Leo and without making you responsible in any way. Are you the rightful owner of that money, although you did not put any effort? (Did not sell any booklists, courses etc.) Think about that. Colonization is way worse, because it also destroys spiritual wisdom of civilizations etc. But it is nice that you are dedicated to giving the maximum to the world I admire that.

Racism is real in your country whether you are the victim or the perpetrator. I dont think it is possible for there to be a country without racism today.

 

 

 

[bejapuskas]

@A_v_E  I am sorry I triggered you like that, I think maybe we would agree on more things if we continued. Every section has its less conscious individuals. (But I still wouldnt say that the blacks in France are the cause of their own oppression that is too much)

I also think race and class are kinda related, because of racism partially, but of course there are White people who are really poor and suffer a lot, especially in Ukraine.

Mental illness sucks. For a person of any section. I know from experience. 

Do not let some mean girl dictate what you have to do and who you have to be in your life. I swear, in my own life, sacrificing authenticity for trying to female gaze and and also Incel culture both really fucked me up and made me less truthful as well as less myself. It limited my ability to think for myself critically about society.

[Reciprocality]

This globe fits billions of people, to what end is it good that everyone is interconnected, is it sustainable?

If humans never even had the option to intermingle between cultures that would probably be for the best, in which case we would have far less power, in which case we would have far inferior technology, evolve in ourself and not so much as an instrument to something else, be far less nihilistic by how we now perceive ourself proportional to how much bigger humanity is than us, and thereby how little effect we have on otherness.

In the short time frame in which we virtue signal our minimal care for anything that extends beyond ourself just a little we will surely open our heart for some multiculturalism, but would it be good in the end? It is too late to put the brakes on global economy, for this reason we are destined to end with a global power, if such a power were mono cultural then I find it hard to see how it would not end up exploitative.

Is multiculturalism bad? .. If it is a human conclusion, its outcomes distributes power far more equally than its alternatives and humans end up capable of moving beyond apathy and nihilism and the anarchy which follows then I would consider it an instrumental good, our next step in cultural evolution will be externally antithetical and confrontational, that is when we have evolved beyond our revisionist postmodern internal antithesis phase.

 

At a cosmological scale I think there are potentials hidden in this universe that only a sustainable multicultural synergistic global power can reach and make good use of, I think there is just as much something out there in a possible future that pulls us towards some pretty neat actualization, as there are events of the past that has pushed us where we are.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Reciprocality