IFS Founder Dislikes Ekkart Tolle

[Raptorsin7]

In this video Richard Schwartz expresses his dislike for Ekkart Tole's approach to healing and spirituality.

I definitely think there is something fundamentally flawed and inefficient about many modern teachers, but i was surprised to hear such a strong criticism of Tolle. 

 

[Rokazulu]

Nothing is flawed about any approach, from my perspective.

It is just that, these teachers have no teaching. Everything is subjective.
They are just expressing a reflection of what can already be known or acted upon through our own individuation.

Basically, it is what Bruce Lee already noted:
“Absorb what is useful, discard what is useless and add what is specifically your own”

Schwartz recognized that is was useful to him in some ways, but feels as a whole, he has been bamboozled.
But, he actually just had an experience of what to discard.

Edited April 19, 2022 by Rokazulu

[Ulax]

Ye I agree.

I find many meditative teachings to be disrespectful to the psychic system, and many parts.

[Rokazulu]

48 minutes ago, Ulax said:

Ye I agree.

I find many meditative teachings to be disrespectful to the psychic system, and many parts.

Is that so?


Tell me how it feels after this one:

 

Edited April 19, 2022 by Rokazulu

[Zeroguy]

53 minutes ago, Ulax said:

Ye I agree.

I find many meditative teachings to be disrespectful to the psychic system, and many parts.

What is psychic system?

[Ulax]

@Rokazulu I'm not denying there are benefits of meditation. I meditate myself a lot.

[Ulax]

@Zeroguy To me, psychic system essentially refers to the organisation of one's mind.

 

[Raptorsin7]

@Zeroguy If you're looking for good healing modalities IFS is legit man. I just had an incredible break through about acceptance and surrender thanks for my IFS therapist. Thinking in terms of parts and being compassionate and loving to all parts of ourselves is huge

[Ulax]

@Raptorsin7 Was that in addition to the one you were telling me about on my journal?

[Raptorsin7]

@Ulax Was what in addition?

[Ulax]

@Raptorsin7 Your "incredible breakthrough"

[Asayake]

For me both A New Earth and The Power of Now were very helpful books. Especially The power of Now. I feel like they're misrepresenting what Eckhart Tolle is trying to say to some extent. I don't know if calling his teachings "a lot of self avoidance masked as enlightenment" is fair. Tolle simply suggests that you let go of your beliefs(thoughts) about who you are by connecting to who you actually are in this moment(by connecting to your feelings and inner energy/body and experiencing it as it is without letting your thoughts warp what you experience into something it is actually not. Tolle encourages you to observe and accept negative feelings, to just feel them for what they are and be with them and let them express themselves to you. Isn't that literally what loving all parts of yourself is, just like what their advice is? Their advice makes sense to me on one hand but on the other hand it is confusing to me because it seems like they're confusing the ego with the self at times, atleast Jeff Brown. Richard Schwartz says Tolle does a good job at describing the self which is interesting because Tolles understanding of what the self is seems very different from Jeff Browns.

Jeff Brown says that when he tried detaching from his story(his thoughts about his past and who he is) he felt uncomfortable and "like i was dishonoring this beautiful self that was carrying me through life". But that is confusing to me. Because the story of who he is is not his real self from my understanding of self, that is the ego. He is not what he thinks he is. To me it sounds like maybe he let go of the story which connected him to his feelings in the present and he was not used to letting his feelings be as they are without explaining them away. So instead of feeling uncomfortable feelings and not trying to explain them away his mind created a new story about how his negative feelings were there because he is dishonoring his beautiful self by letting go of his past. But he has no proof that is the case, it seems to me to be just another delusion of thought. That's just another story, a belief about why his feelings are in a certain way that he does not like that acts as a replacement for his past that he let go of. A new ego.

I don't think Eckhart Tolle is particularly denigrating towards the ego either. I remember he says in A New Earth that you should not demonize the ego, just rise above it, become aware of it and realize it is not who you truly are but simply thoughts and then you're acting on those thoughts because you believe them to be true. I don't remember exactly how he phrased it but that was the gist I got from A New Earth.

[Thought Art]

Stop expecting one teacher or system to have all the answers

I like Tolle, but I am integrated many perspectives as I do my inner work 

I don’t fully agree with these guys interpretation. I think everyone will use a teaching differently. 

I appreciate Tolle, but it’s a partial perspective. 
 

will listen deeper later

[Breakingthewall]

I think Tolle is a genius who is able to express the greatest depth in the simplest way. I especially liked the second book, although the first one too. straight to the point, basic, simple, clear

[Raze]

I saw this. As a fan of both here is my opinion,

Eckhart is right, but Richard’s view is more helpful.

Richard’s theory is that we have a main personality split into multiple sub personalities for a purpose. 
 

Eckhart’s view is that thoughts come from our ego which is the illusory sense of self.

 

Scientifically Eckhart may be more correct. They are finding there is a difference between the “rider” and “elephant”, with the rider being our thoughts and sense of ‘I’ which is taking credit for the work of the elephant, our subconscious, which does 90 percent of the work

 

http://happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2012/08/elephant-or-rider-intuition-or.html

 

however, Richard’s approach may be more helpful. The problem with Eckhart is even if he doesn’t mean it, people interpret his teachings through the ego, and beat themselves up for having thoughts. Of course, the part that is doing that is just the ego itself.

 

Eckhart is giving a radical enlightenment teaching, but most people who read his books are not going to get that far, because they don’t have a serious practice. 
 

Richard is promoting ways to get the ego to calm down and be more manageable.

[Tristan12]

I think Tolle's work has its place and can definitely be valuable in some ways, but I wouldn't say that it has much use for emotional healing or creating any kind of balance or harmony between parts within the psyche, like what IFS is for. What Tolle talks about just ends up being spiritual bypassing if you were to try to use it for those issues. Because of this i'm not surprised to hear that someone like Richard Schwartz doesn't think highly of him.

[aurum]

I would suggest that there is little ultimate difference between the end goal of what Eckhart Tolle teaches and what IFS teaches. It’s just a different conceptual framework and somewhat of a different path to get there.

[SeaMonster]

In my experience, IFS and "nonduality" are both necessary as far as holistic spiritual work.

Here's the problem: IFS alone is very nice, but it's a delusion to think you can ever properly integrate the parts without dropping ego attachments.  The ego construction means an inevitable preference and prioritizing of certain parts due to attachment.

And nonduality is very nice, but without IFS you have not integrated, so you're in a let-go state but with many of the same issues that you had prior to enlightenment.

It is best to do BOTH, otherwise your results will be limited.

[Raptorsin7]

14 hours ago, Ulax said:

@Raptorsin7 Your "incredible breakthrough"

Yeah. It's about accepting internal resistance and shifting your internal attitude towards any suffering. You can stop go inward and notice what's present, and see if there's an unconscious resistance. It's like there's already something here that can be given love and acceptance. 

Apparently internal resistance to sensations and the clinging that comes from wanting are a huge sources of suffering. So understanding those two parts of you can be really incredible. I have just started to really understand my resistance, but I haven't even really touched on all the suffering that comes from wanting something other than what is.

Also try cultivating an attitude of thankfulness or gratitude for anything that arises. If you have any reference of gratitude in your life use that as a tool to cultivate the feeling, then express gratitude for anything and everything that is.

[Salvijus]

They lack understanding in spirituality and meditation that's why the friction.

The thing they both kept repeating is that meditation doesn't heal. Or that the act of observation doesn't fix the problem. Which is not true I would argue. All criticism was based on this idea alone pretty much i think. And it is a false statement. Act of observation eliminates all neaurosis and leads to purifycation of the mind. It leads to absolute health and wholeness of individual. So... 

I actually liked the video and their thoughts. Never heard of ifs before. They have some interesting insights. But their criticism can be easily resolved with a little bit deeper understanding of meditation and what it does and how it works.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Salvijus