The 5-MeO-DMT Mega-Thread

[Real Eyes]

7 hours ago, DrMobius said:

I had the breakthrough today...

No word, no metaphor, no superlative, nothing could even come close. After all the "theory", all the reading, I thought I was ready, I thought I knew what I'd get.

No I didn't.

It was absolutely insane. It was it. Just IT. That's really the only word I have at this point.

I guess now I know...

Thanks to Leo & to this thread.

That's amazing.  Could you share your dosage and how you administered it?

[mp22]

Any regrets? is the "truth"  better than the illusion?

[Real Eyes]

3 hours ago, DrMobius said:

There is no better or worse. Everything is the same.

In any situation, be it in a "normal" state or an "altered" state, you can always find that one thing that matters: the present moment.

This is the only thing that will ever matter. There is literally nothing else. 5-MeO-DMT helped me to see this fact, and now, what I found during the experience, I can find right now.

You seem to think that there is truth and illusion, or right and wrong. You should try to drop this way of thinking. Everything is both at the same time, and neither. Everything is totally meaningless!

Anything that you have right now, is already the best thing that you can have. Look around and see it. It's just that 5-MeO-DMT can grab your head and brutally point it in the "right direction" for you, so there's nothing else for you to see but that.

Do you mean you can get back to the 5-meo state by meditation, or do you mean that this state is constantly with you all the time?  If it is the latter, then you may be the first case I've heard of a lasting awakening after their first 5-meo breakthrough.

[Leo Gura]

@DrMobius Good work. But it's certainly possible with meditation and self-inquiry as well. It just requires some super-human effort.

[Ananta]

I have not taken a psychedelic,  but I'm with ya ... I've been at for 8 years though...

[AlwaysBeNice]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@DrMobius Good work. But it's certainly possible with meditation and self-inquiry as well. It just requires some super-human effort.

Or some grace, spontaneous awakening, usually related to a crisis in one's life seems to be somewhat common, maybe half of the time compared to consistent spiritual practice.

Speculation: maybe even this is so, aside from compassion, because the ego can't make a trophy out of it.

[Leo Gura]

@AlwaysBeNice You might as well be waiting for lighting to strike your head.

Maybe it will spark some enlightenment

[Shrek_Of_Justice]

On 8/26/2017 at 5:08 AM, Leo Gura said:

@DrMobius Good work. But it's certainly possible with meditation and self-inquiry as well. It just requires some super-human effort.

Or just be Martin and take so much 5-MeO that you literally become it and can switch in and out of the 5-meo space at free will q:-).

[AlwaysBeNice]

Super human effort, or not, to just surrender.

[Dodo]

On 26/08/2017 at 0:31 AM, DrMobius said:

@Real Eyes I don't think it is possible to get to the same intensity only with meditation. We are talking about world-shattering, explosive energy, that obliterates the ego in a matter of minutes, and then leaves room for a deep, selfless ocean of bliss and infinite gratitude. This kind of intensity I believe can only occur with the influence of a chemical.

During the second half of the experience, after the destruction of the ego, you get in this state of absolute peace and love, that manifests through the present moment. In this state, it becomes crystal clear that all is one, all is the same, and all is now. What was only a knowledge becomes an actual feeling, or rather, being. So what I meant is that this fusion with the present moment stays with you after the trip like a new sense, and you can choose to "get back" in the same kind of state with meditation. Not as deep, not as intense, but of the same kind. You now have the power to see this new color, that was invisible before, although always present. Because you can now distinguish it, as you've already seen it once. 

Why would you be saying this... The thing is it's just beliefs you're spitting out now. How would you know the intensity you can reach without the drug... And when you say "only meditation" that's a bell ringing. Perhaps you mean formal meditation sittings.

The thing is, we supposedly have these chemicals in our brains - perhaps it's just a matter of finding a new meditation practice that would make those release the quickest and not at time of natural physical death.

[Dodo]

2 hours ago, DrMobius said:

@Dodo 5-MeO does not only induce spiritual openings. There is a wide variety of physical, cognitive and visual effects, specific to the fact that it's a psychotropic chemical substance before everything else. The trip is a step by step process and I had to go through a fair share of undesired things before attaining this temporary state I was looking for. So when I was speaking of intensity, I was referring to those effects as a whole.

I just speak from my own personnal experience there. Meditating never made hysterically scream for my life. It never made me lose consciousness or projected in some hyperspace... You know what I mean?

 

Nice explanation +1 rep

2 hours ago, DrMobius said:

 

As far as I know, our brains producing 5-MeO-DMT is only a hypothesis. I don't know about that, but I think you're the one spitting out beliefs there though.

 

-1 rep

I've had "DMT-like" experiences before after doing binaural beats + third eye meditation which prove to me experientially that there might be something there to look into. I've experienced suddenly appearing in some place like another dimension or something that felt like home but I couldn't see anything, it was too dark. This lasting for like a second - 2 times in quick succession. Later that night as I was falling asleep I felt a specific pressure sensation at a point on top of my head, perhaps from the release of something. During that night I dreamt my guardian Angel giving me guidance. It felt super real.

She showed me a place that looked like heaven and said - this is hell. It was directly aimed at my gaming addiction (ok, and weed...) , that's what I took from this mostly.

Anyway, I do not have any experience with psychedelics and this probably doesn't constitute as a "trip", but as I've posted my experiences on this forum, other more experienced members told me that this was most likely from me sucking on the DMT juice  

Sorry I said that you shared a belief. I re-read and saw the words "I think" before the thing that triggered (  ) me, which show that you're not pushing your opinion as fact. There's no problem in this. In fact It's very easy to see how what you're saying could be legit and likely is.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Dodo

[Stoneyeti]

Any sublingual breakthroughs out there? If so, could you share your experience and dosage?

[Big Ajax]

Hello Leo, 

 

what is the difference in trip between 20 Mg, 25Mg and 30Mg since in firt trip I experienced such a fast start within 1 min instead of 5 min. and then it feels like I was in middle of infinite and asking myself if my life was over. And my breathing felt like I have two enormus pipe to breath from and normally my noze is 40% blocked. After 45 min my friend sitter started to talk to me and it felt like I was drunk or just receive a frozen dentist stuff and I was unable to speak as easy as before. Then I slowly came back feeling fantastik. Can you define what is a breakthrough!

 

thanks,

[Leo Gura]

@Big Ajax Dosages vary be individual. Those are just ballparks.

A breakthrough?

You can only know it once you've crossed into it. Life as you've known it is over.

Sounds like you had your first dose and it was just a such shocking experience you didn't know what to make of it and didn't accomplish much existential insight. That's why psychedelics must be done repeatedly, slowly raising your dose over weeks and months. Then you will be able to integrate.

[zikzak]

I too feel the memory of the breakthrough fade. In the beginning I would get very emotional and filled with energy when I talked about it - now I can talk about it casually. One funny thing I noticed is that (and this was the case even shortly after the experience) it's hard to remember the state I was in exactly - I mean it  was very vivid for me when it happened - but trying  to remember it fully my brain starts to "hurt". Remembering yourself not being restricted to yourself seems very weird and almost impossible from the normal dualistic way of experiencing, for me anyway. 

[Leo Gura]

All enlightenment experiences turn into memories. Which is why it's important to let them go and work towards abiding nondual awareness in the present moment.

Enlightenment cannot be held on to. You must be actively conscious RIGHT NOW, because RIGHT NOW is all there is. Psychedelics open the gateway, but that's just when the real work begins.

A memory of high consciousness held while in low consciousness, is still low consciousness.

It's like you've exited the Matrix, then fallen back into the Matrix, and now have a faint memory of what it's like outside the Matrix, but fundamentally you're still locked in the Matrix. The only solution is to work towards a permanent escape.

[zikzak]

Indeed. 

[ivandrade10]

Comments fof SILO (see Silo.net) during a conference in 1972 -sorry its large, but worth reading

GOOGLE TRANSLATION -original in spanish

Question: "Some people say that some drugs, including LSD and mescaline, make it possible to touch states similar to those that we could imagine as belonging to objective consciousness, or that appear at least clearly differentiated from the crepuscular. In other words, on the other hand, considering that they in fact alter the structure of consciousness, would it be legitimate to infer that under special conditions they would be useful to the process of conscious evolution? This is an interesting question. You know that in some countries of Asia there are some "schools", to give a name, that speak of the use of the drug in order to provoke the opening of the conscience. You will also know the tradition of many peoples that speaks of nectars, of wonderful juices, that make man in the image of the gods ... from soma to alcohol in our American aborigines. You know also that mescaline, other derivatives of peyote and some toxic mushrooms, serve to elaborate some hallucinogenic substances. These hallucinogens, in a more or less pure state, have always been present in the villages in their own way, and have "served" so that at the popular level some kind of education would be accessible by the similarity of states that these teachings posed and that individuals In reality they could experiment. Faced with two problems: one, that of the morale that makes people frightened by the drug without full knowledge on the subject, and the other problem, that certain drugs deteriorate the nervous system, we will elude them to respond strictly to the question. In the general doctrinal system which we have not explained here (here we have explained nothing more than a lateral point, which refers to transcendental meditation and which is strictly for specialists), we speak of a possible higher level of consciousness: the level of objective consciousness . We speak of physical locations that have to do with mental processes; That mental processes do not occur in the air, but manifest themselves psychosomatically. In this way, when there was a certain mobilization at the level of this hypothetical higher center, the correlative level of objective consciousness would be set in motion. So sometimes, by a simple accident, this level would wake up in very common people. I do not know if you will have experiences, otherwise not very rare, such as: "this I have already lived." Do you recognize that experience? They go on the train, for example, and suddenly it gives them the impression that this has already happened again in the same way. Yes or no? This is a type of paramnesic experience on which psychologists have good explanations, but they do not fully explain the phenomenon. There are other cases where it is no longer a question of recognizing a new fact as already lived but the other way around: a fact seen on a daily basis, recognizing it as if it were the first time it is seen. Do you understand the difference? I see that wall of my house every day, but it happens that this day I see it for the first time in a "different" way. Do you recognize that other phenomenon that is the inverse of the previous one? Let's look at another case that is also frequent. In an inexplicable way, in any situation, they experience in you a great sensation of joy; A flood of consciousness; A total expansion that seems to identify them with things and there were no differences between them and you. Do you know that state? It is more or less frequent. There is another type of phenomena that no longer refer to that sort of synthesis between consciousness-object without differences, of communication of one with things, but goes to another level. It is no longer about this emotional expansion, it is a matter of suddenly being, without knowing why, a great understanding of things emerges, as if it were all understood at once. The subject can not explain well what it was, but in that "sizzle" of consciousness that lasted very short time, he seemed to experience a deep understanding of the real. Has it happened to them? They are not pathological phenomena, do not be scared, that happens to many people. There is explanation for those things too. There are even practices that apply for the subject to achieve such states. Experiences of the type of Sufis; Ritual dances; Special respiratory forms, etc., can cause the phenomena known in some schools as "expansion of consciousness", "communication with objects" and so on. That can be done artificially. It can be caused by direct action on the body. You must recognize that in the Catholic liturgy itself, in the Catholic ritual, there are a number of practices which are observed with rigor, which allow one to understand how the believer is placed in a different mental situation and causes phenomena of this kind. See what happens to the believer. In a deep act of devotion the faithful stands, sits, kneels, rests, kneels and so on. Stimuli penetrate all of their ways of perception simultaneously, which reinforces the impression as we have been seeing. That is to say: by the olfactory route the incense; By auditory means the chants, the repetitions, the monotonous sounds of the sentence; By visual means the candles, the concentration in the luminarias and in the altar where the priest officiates, the fixation of the sight to greater height of the visual average (that already understood Braid that was the first one to use the word "hypnosis") . If you see that the devotional state is reinforced by the sensations, kinesthetic provoked by that continuous movement of the body in the genuflection, in the rising and all that; If you see that those kinesthetic and tactile sensations are being reinforced and expanded with the rhythm imposed by the sacrifice of the mass, we are only free the gustatory system. All the senses have been mobilized to perceive in the direction of the ceremony and even the gustatory when receiving the host, reinforcing the devotional feeling. ... I'm not making fun of this! I'm trying to study procedures that can induce from the outside, right? I tell you the case of the Catholic liturgy because it is, in general, closer to all present. I say that almost all ritual systems, more or less variations, have their action on the individual. What are these ritual systems acting on, on the air, on an astral body? No, they are working on the physical body. And if this causes emotional changes (sometimes causes the feelings I have described, more or less as normal at the beginning of our talk), why not with other procedures is going to be able to achieve that same? We say that the modification of the structure of consciousness occurs the modification of perceptions. Mescaline, peyote, LSD, etc., can effectively bring us into contact with phenomena of this type, as well as exercises and practices that from the body modify the structure of consciousness. Now we recognize the difference between the crepuscular and the conscious, or beyond the conscious, precisely in that very thing that puts the word "conscience." I have knowledge and awareness of what happens to me and I can control it, or me I do not know what it is and I can not control it. When, for some of the causes we have stated, these phenomena of the paranormal type are out of the ordinary (I do not say they are up or down, I say they are on the side of The normal thing), when by some of these experiences, I touch phenomena of paranormal type, I must ask myself if they enter within the scope of my conscience, if I govern them, if I understand them, or if they happen to me. They happen and I have no control over them, I say that these phenomena tend to the field of the twilight. If, on the other hand, I manage them, develop them, control them, control them, I say they belong to the realm of my consciousness and above My conscienci to.

I just make differences in that. Note that in very primitive cults (for some writings that are rescued) very profound truths are read there and it seems that there was in them a knowledge of transcendental meditation, or of very intense works. However, some may have achieved that deep insight, putting themselves in a state of ecstasy or circling a fire. It happens that these phenomena actually occur, which are worth not only for the perception of things, but also for the appearance of other highly discussed but existing ones known as "psi" phenomena. These subjects can get in touch with these issues, but do they have control of that, or does it all happen? I tell you (and now it has to do with what we had noticed at the outset about morphine and whether or not drugs deteriorate the nervous system) that the biggest problem in this matter lies in the ease of getting in touch with a certain type Of phenomena. With drug or self-hypnosis it is so reasonable to reach them, it costs so little work, that I seem to warn by that greater facility that by way of knowledge, the way of effort ... the ascending way so to speak. If you had to choose, a hundred normal people worried about expanding their consciousness, between these stories of meditation or the like and a pillory, you imagine that in favor of our proposals we would not gain more than 10%., There is no doubt in the election . But would that majority, would manage and evolve consciousness or would be stuck in sizzle and at the mercy of the phenomenon? I say "at the mercy of the phenomenon", not because a hairy hand goes from the unconscious to put inside a bag ... (LAUGHS) .... but because that kind of experience, apart from the physical habit that can cause, It is psychologically habitable because of the benefits received from the meager effort made. In this way, the subject is separated from any other possibility. What work will you take on another search if you already have this on hand? That is not progress, that is what I want to tell you. That way is limited, even if there is contact. Observe that in many religions and sects when they reach those levels by twilight, the subjects speak of being taken by "spirits". Do you understand the meaning of this idea of being taken, rather than taken? Do you notice what happens in those phenomena with that of entering into trance, "being handled by", "depending on"? That is to go towards the egg, toward autism and not expand as is the function of life! Life expands, life is growth, life is development. Do you believe that enclosure, autism, schizophrenia, the twilight is expansion? Anyway, the question is interesting, I do not answer at all, but I leave some milestones that can serve as reference to the one who asked.

[ivandrade10]

Hi guys,

I don't hold a dogma regarding use of drugs for evolution, but my objection is sustained from the following point:

The human machinery is such a complex system, altering it through unknowingly experimentation or drugs withough a deep understanding of the medium to long term consequences of those actions, might result in permanent damage to the system, and what started as fantastic experiences, end up in an unfortunate disaster. If wise and experienced man (ex: Buddha) have warned against search for fantastic experiences and powers, as a deviation from the path, what can be said of "shortcuts"?

I've followed some of the videos of Leo, and although he seems to warn and caution people regarding the dangers and cares of these experiments, I think is quite unwise and bordering the irresponsible to expose these experimentations still without a definitive conclusion about them. 

Apologies for the negative tone of the comment. Unfortunately, in my view, the topic demands a line demarcation. 

Regards,

Ivan
ps:nI would suggest reading carefully my previous post on SILO's comments on use of drugs for mental evolution.

[outlandish]

Hi @ivandrade10 - It's nice to see that you keep an open and also skeptical mind to using psychedelics for growth. It's good to ask these questions before you decide whether or not to partake in using psychedelics!

I used to be worried about negative long term consequences from psychedelics when I was much younger, and ended up doing a lot of research and deciding for myself that there is extremely little risk in using them. As I've gotten older I realize that I'm now in the position of being a "long-term user" of psychedelics. In retrospect I can see that they've been extremely useful in my life as tools for growth and self-realization, with no negative consequences. I've also met many people over the years who have been taking them for a long time and have also benefitted greatly from them. They're not for everyone, that's for sure, but the risks from testing them out to see are negligible assuming:

• responsible use
• no mental disorders
• adequate mental age and maturity
• correct substance (know your source, know your substance)

In summary, I think we do have a definitive conclusion about them: they are safe, millions of people have used them and benefitted from them. They're still a real taboo in society and hard to talk about though, it's still just a tiny fraction of the worlds population who has experimented with this class of drugs. The taboo is beginning to melt a bit, but there's a long way to go when even on an ostensibly open-minded message board such as this one people seem to get there knickers in all kinds of twists over the subject.