The 5-MeO-DMT Mega-Thread

[OBEler]

45 minutes ago, The Crocodile said:

No, you've never had an OBE before, you've just had shit semi-lucid dreams like once a year a few years ago.

I mean real OBEs.

You wouldn't even use the term "out of body experience".

You don't know my experience. I had real OBEs on a weekly basis. No lucid dream stuff, I know the difference. There is a clear difference. An OBE is almost like a waking state consciousness but more like an observer watching a movie, sometimes I could not make a difference if I am astral projecting or in "normal reality ".

People are over hyped about OBEs they just had a few and imagine how it could be. I had countless and know it's limits. 

[emil1234]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Terell Kirby Intellectually you will understand the existence of higher things, but you won't even be able to imagine them accurately or do anything with them.

What are you gonna do with a 10-dimensional hyper-cube? You can marvel at its existence but that's about it.

have you experienced hyper dimensional objects, as often described in NN-dmt breakthroughs?

[The Crocodile]

18 minutes ago, OBEler said:

No lucid dream stuff

You weren't lucid. I know, lol. That's why it wasn't lucid dream stuff.

[The Crocodile]

20 minutes ago, emil1234 said:

have you experienced hyper dimensional objects, as often described in NN-dmt breakthroughs?

hyper dimensional archetypical mice entity

[Average Actualizer]

9 hours ago, Loveeee said:

What about healing and other powers ? 

 

They are absolutely possible, accessing things like "superpowers" boils down to increasing your vibration to a really high level, and from my experience the best ways to increase vibration are preserving sexual energy, breatharianism/eating very little and sleeping very little or not sleeping at all (by not sleeping i mean sleeping while staying conscious the entire time so that you never fall into REM or deep sleep because these states take a lot of energy from us), a combination of these 3 would be insane, i myself haven't experienced what it would be like but i have tasted all 3 of these things so i understand the practical spiritual power they hold, i think this is honestly the best path to enlightement, better than meditation, psychedelics and other spiritual techniques.

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, Davino said:

I just love the psychedelic truth slap, it's very helpful to reground myself in truth. It's a safety mechanism for me.

Yes, it's a great reminder and dispeller of Maya.

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I have a question for you: is there a moment when the egoic self contraction-knot gets released forever?

I'm sure there is but I have not reached it yet.

Strictly speaking there is a difference between dissolution of the human ego vs God-Realization or higher consciousness. These are not the same thing and they often do not coincide. You can have one without the other.

Many so-called enlightened people may not have much of a sense of self, but that does not mean they have higher consciousness of God. And you can have higher consciousness of God but still a strong sense of human self. To have both would be exceptionally rare.

3 hours ago, emil1234 said:

have you experienced hyper dimensional objects, as often described in NN-dmt breakthroughs?

Yes. But it wasn't really a object, more like the field of consciousness itself became hyper-dimensional.

You can have a hyper-dimensional experience of Love itself.

Imagine if Love was the hyper-dimensional object.

Edited Thursday at 06:28 PM by Leo Gura

[Yimpa]

@Water by the River welcoke back 

Have you taken any psychedelics during your break?

Edited Thursday at 06:36 PM by Yimpa

[Terell Kirby]

28 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Many so-called enlightened people may not have much of a sense of self, but that does not mean they have higher consciousness of God.

No self is a visual and sensual phenomenon for me. I can feel into the disembodied agent that is moving around in physical space time. I’m not my body, I’m just experiencing it.

God consciousness shows up as the highest degree of construct awareness. It’s often fleeting, but can access some of it in quiet contemplation. From here everything becomes an elaborate self constructed dream and narrative imbued with intelligence.

I can also acknowledge there are infinitely higher degrees of this that are not accessible in a sober state.

[Davino]

@Leo Gura Thanks your answer has been very helpful in clarifying a few blurry processes.

[Eskilon]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

To have both would be exceptionally rare.

That might be what extraterrestrials looks like 👽

[fanta]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, it's a great reminder and dispeller of Maya.

I'm sure there is but I have not reached it yet.

Strictly speaking there is a difference between dissolution of the human ego vs God-Realization or higher consciousness. These are not the same thing and they often do not coincide. You can have one without the other.

Many so-called enlightened people may not have much of a sense of self, but that does not mean they have higher consciousness of God. And you can have higher consciousness of God but still a strong sense of human self. To have both would be exceptionally rare.

Yes. But it wasn't really a object, more like the field of consciousness itself became hyper-dimensional.

You can have a hyper-dimensional experience of Love itself.

Imagine if Love was the hyper-dimensional object.

I have for the most part taken LSD in regards to psychedelics. I have had ego death and no mind many times before where I have not been able to distinguish myself from my surroundings and seen the mechanical workings of my ego, time standing still, feeling totally alone in the universe etc. But one of the first trips I took, I had this crazy trip on an beach at an abandoned island  with my ex girlfriend that was just on another lever.

At one point I had no sense of self or being a human. I was just being. Existence was fully organic. Everything was alive. I "asked" or my counsiousness was focused on; how is it possible that anything exist at all?  The "answer" I was shown. was a fractal. Its really hard to explain but it existense itself was glaringly obvious, I felt stupid for not have been able to notice it before. Existence can exist because of X and the meaning of existence is because Y, and there could not be any other way. It was like a waterproof mathematical equation with infinite underlines under the answer.  There was more to it but I cant remember clearly. It was just a perpeptual loop that went to infinity and would never stop. I felt an extreme love and connection with everything. I was in awe. It was like finally coming home from forgetting what I was and that suffering will not be forever.  It was like meeting a estranged omniloving parent that I have been separated from all of my life. It was like breaking out from being tortured in a jail. 

Not trying to be pretentious here, but its the only way to describe it.

Is what I experienved god realization?

Edited yesterday at 02:37 AM by fanta

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, fanta said:

Is what I experienved god realization?

It's close.

A more direct God-Realization would involve a more intimate turning of attention inside yourself to notice that you are God.

God can be realized as other than you, as outside yourself, or more fully as you the human body.

You can take various angles on God. You just need to explore more angles, especially ones that involve turning your focus back towards your human body so that God is not being externalized as an object outside you.

Edited yesterday at 02:45 AM by Leo Gura

[ExploringReality]

@OBEler

An OBE is consciousness disembodied. You are outside time,death and are the ever present witness. Pure consciousness.

[Water by the River]

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Strictly speaking there is a difference between dissolution of the human ego vs God-Realization or higher consciousness. These are not the same thing and they often do not coincide. You can have one without the other.

Many so-called enlightened people may not have much of a sense of self, but that does not mean they have higher consciousness of God. And you can have higher consciousness of God but still a strong sense of human self. To have both would be exceptionally rare

I understand it looks like that for you . It couldn't look any different. I have no way of communicating these final steps in concepts/words to you.

"Many so-called enlightened people may not have much of a sense of self, but that does not mean they have higher consciousness of God."

(Full) Enlightenment doesn't mean little sense of self, or killing the ego (which remains functional, even better than before, afterwards).

It is the dropping of each and any identity and center. No subtle Identity/center/separatation is left. All seen through, the loop closing itself in realtime. Boundless aware eternal Reality itself, without any possible center/identity, in which and as which all appearance flows.

All of what you write, even "God-Realization", has identity/center/separation left. A "God-Realizer". That is a temporary arising mirage in the eternal unchanging Reality/Totality. 

Enlightenment is truly utterly impersonal Infinite Reality/Awareness. No center. Infinite and boundless. Without nothing possible besides it, without a second, in no dimension and realm. It is utterly beyond concepts and words, identities and centers, experiences and understandings. Although all of that happens within "It".

Infinitely intelligent. God. Totality. Each and any subtle identity/center/duality (which by definition is separate from the Totality) has to go. All of these are temporary arisings, reflections on the water, mirage, illusions. And they are very very very subtle and tricky towards the end of the path, nothing one can talk about with concepts without having had the reference experience of the signifiers/words.

What you call God-Realization is still a mirage, a reflection on the water, being had by an illusionary self (although highly awakened and developed, nondual and infinite, but not yet truly impersonal and truly centerless and hence also still reflection on the water). Not yet truly enlightened and truly impersonal. None of the "God-Realization" is eternal or timeless, or always here. 

You are that which is always here. All of these reflections on the water of the cycle of ignorance to God Realization happen in You. A mirage. Appearances. Changing. Dreamlike. Unreal.

The last step is the falling away of that God-Realizer. That is still a subtle separation and identity. Believe or not.

What remains? What is always here?

What is truly real? What are you really? What is truly eternal, always the case, god-realized or not, enlightened or not?

That which can never loose or gain anything, despite being enlightened or ignorant.

That is It. Or True You.

See you "there".

 

Your dream-character

Selling Water by the River

 

Musical Coda:

Life must have its Mysteries

 

Edited yesterday at 09:27 AM by Water by the River

[OBEler]

7 hours ago, ExploringReality said:

@OBEler

An OBE is consciousness disembodied. You are outside time,death and are the ever present witness. Pure consciousness.

No mostly you have a sense of time. 

Outside time, death? You have OBE phantasys in your mind.

 

[fanta]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's close.

A more direct God-Realization would involve a more intimate turning of attention inside yourself to notice that you are God.

God can be realized as other than you, as outside yourself, or more fully as you the human body.

You can take various angles on God. You just need to explore more angles, especially ones that involve turning your focus back towards your human body so that God is not being externalized as an object outside you.

Yeah, I forgot to say that I was also was aware that I was perpetually creating existense. And if I remember correctly, I saw which chakra where it was starting. But it was really blurry. It was around 7 or 8 years ago. But after that day, I have never been afraid to die. I have tried 5-meo-dmt maybe 5 times. One time was close to breakthrough. But that was totally different. My body became light as a feather and extreme amounts of light energy was surging through my body. But as you say, 5-meo-dmt it a lot cleaner and not as much as a distant trip that is wavy.

Edited yesterday at 12:46 PM by fanta

[emil1234]

@Water by the River what about leos god realization without perceived center observer?

[Water by the River]

10 minutes ago, emil1234 said:

@Water by the River what about leos god realization without perceived center observer?

That is exactly as you write: Leos God Realization. A very subtle (but still present) identity/subject/observer "Leo" experiencing the Ox, and projecting itself on it. Of course, it is no longer Leo or personal or anything resembling an ego, doesn't need to have a center, can (and is) already nondual, but it is still subtle identity, a subtle subject vs. object, subtle filters, "having" the God Realization. It is not utterly empty and impersonal nondual Infinite Reality itself. "Something" that temporarily arises is still having the experience. It is not permanent. Which Absolute Reality/True You is. Always here.

For the utterly empty and impersonal part, see "What is enlightenment, no, I mean really, like what is it?" by Steven Norquist. 

The same story in Zen (in Kapleau, Three Pillars of Zen):

Harada Roshi on Yaekos Kensho: "I confirm that she has truly seen the Ox .... But as yet there remains a subject who is seeing. Her Mind’s home is still far distant. She must search more intensely!"

Yaekos Enlightenment: "I have reached the point of actually grasping the Ox, and there is absolutely no delusion. There is neither Ox nor man."

"Those who have only kensho do not know this state of unlimited freedom and profound peace of mind. Indeed, it cannot be known until one comes to full enlightenment."

If the subject can't be switched off fully sobre, it can't be switched off fully with psychedelics. Some subtle remnants preventing Enlightenment always remain. And these shut down Awakening after coming down from the trip. Not too complicated actually, but what magnificent illusions Spirit can still invent on the last mile...

And there is ZERO chance to anticipate the last shift, the dropping of all filters/lenses/identities/centers/... until it happens. Because if it could be anticipated, it would have already happened. And hence, SWbtR gets his usual beatings, although increasingly in a compassionate way. 

 

Selling unlimited freedom and profound peace of mind 

by The River

 

 

[Leo Gura]

12 hours ago, Water by the River said:

(Full) Enlightenment doesn't mean little sense of self, or killing the ego (which remains functional, even better than before, afterwards).

It is the dropping of each and any identity and center. No subtle Identity/center/separatation is left. 

That's all fine and good, but it is not God-Realization.

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A "God-Realizer". That is a temporary arising mirage in the eternal unchanging Reality/Totality. 

God-Realization does not have or need a "God-Realizer". The realizer of God is God. Consciousness is just conscious.

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Enlightenment is truly utterly impersonal Infinite Reality/Awareness. No center. Infinite and boundless. Without nothing possible besides it, without a second, in no dimension and realm. It is utterly beyond concepts and words, identities and centers, experiences and understandings. Although all of that happens within "It".

That's fine but still not God-Realization.

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What you call God-Realization is still a mirage, a reflection on the water, being had by an illusionary self.

No.

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None of the "God-Realization" is eternal or timeless, or always here.

False.

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You are that which is always here.

The only thing here is God.

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All of these reflections on the water of the cycle of ignorance to God Realization happen in You. A mirage. Appearances. Changing. Dreamlike. Unreal.

The last step is the falling away of that God-Realizer.

This is an improper reductionism which misses the highest realization of what God can be.

God can be total emptiness, but that is just one form of what God can be. You overprioritize it, which is a bias you impose on Consciousness and Yourself. You are free to impose that bias on yourself, since you are God, but it isn't necessary and it prevents you from accessing higher consciousness and understanding some of the things I'm pointing to.

You are stuck doing the Buddhist reductionism shtick. I'm not saying that doesn't work. It works. But it misses a lot of good stuff.

If you keep insisting on formlessness, you will have it.

You can entirely lose your sense of self, but that does not make you infinitely conscious.

But also, be careful fooling yourself. If you had completely lost your sense of self, you couldn't even recall your own name.

Edited 20 hours ago by Leo Gura

[emil1234]

@Leo Gura  @Water by the River tbf ive always found that u agree more than u disagree