The 5-MeO-DMT Mega-Thread

[Leo Gura]

User @outlandish suggested we start a 5-meo mega-thread, as people seem to have lots of general questions about it.

You can still create your own individual threads about 5-meo, and trip reports shouldn't be posted in this thread, but otherwise, consider this the place for general 5-meo discussion.

Here's a link to Erowid's 5-MeO-DMT Vault, which has a lot of basic information.

Note: Do not ask questions here about how to source psychedelics. That is against our Forum Guidelines, so it will be deleted.

[jse]

Anadenanthera peregrina - 12g of this common South American tree's seeds have enough 5-MeO-DMT (and plain DMT) for a decent dose.  That's a heck of a lot of material to insufflate though...

[AlwaysBeNice]

What are all the difference between freebase vs. HCL (salt).

I know that you can snort HCL: which gives a 3x longer plateau experience (10-45 min), with a 10 times longer come down (30-60 min), but the come up is much slower (5 min) apposed the instant smoking effect.

I know that HLC is slighly more heavy (1.2 to 1 vs freebase).

I heard Leo say you can't smoke HCL but I heard Martin say you can, but that it's hard to smoke and you should vape it (iirc).-

I'm wondering, since HCL lasts much longer, does freebase compensate that in anyway with a stronger potency per mg?

[outlandish]

@Leo Gura Nice one chief!

@AlwaysBeNice 

The main difference between the two is more from the ROA (route of administration) that they are used. HCL is for your nose, freebase is for vaporizing. It's possible to vape the HCL, but it's harder on your lungs and burns more easily than freebase, so it's not recommended. Likewise, you could snort the freebase, but it would probably hurt your nose a lot more than the HCL (because it's got a basic pH).

The differences in intensity and duration is due to the ROA and not the form of the drug (aside from the 20% difference due to molecular weight you mentioned).

[Leo Gura]

49 minutes ago, jse said:

Anadenanthera peregrina - 12g of this common South American tree's seeds have enough 5-MeO-DMT (and plain DMT) for a decent dose.  That's a heck of a lot of material to insufflate though...

Yopo seeds contain very little 5-meo. It's largely bufotinine, so not at all the same thing, but still trippy.

Between frog juice and yopo, very few people have tried 99% pure 5-meo. It's like powdered metaphysics and has this hyper-lucid quality.

[Leo Gura]

@AlwaysBeNice You CAN smoke HCL, you just wouldn't want to it. If you're looking to smoke 5-meo, you want freebase.

BTW, it's pretty easy to convert freebase to HCL, and HCL to freebase at home with some basic solvents.

Smoking 5-meo is incredibly fast-acting, and it will hit you like a freight train.

Snorting is gentler, although it still gets crazy-intense after 10 minutes.

HCL can also be used sublingually and rectally. Both methods are worth experimenting with, as snorting tends to waste substance as it drips down your throat. It's not easy to get a full dose by snorting unless you have experience manipulating your nose and really massaging it into the nostrils for a good 10 minutes.

Don't try to snort freebase, it will burn like hell.

My preferred RoA is one that's completely fool-proof, always consistent, and wastes zero substance. Both smoking and snorting are not ideal in this regard.

My best guess is that rectal is the best RoA. But I haven't tested it yet.

[cetus]

From the perspective of using 5meo, what if any difference is there between "infinity/God" and what is "nothingness/the void"?

[Leo Gura]

@cetus56 They are identical. Infinity = void.

Void isn't void because it's empty blackness. It's void because it's EVERYTHING without discrimination.

When you gather up everything possible, it turns out to be nothing particular, see?

Discrimination is what things ARE!!! Without discrimination, everything collapses into absolute indiscriminate fullness.

Infinity is like pure potential waiting to precipitate. The precipitate of infinity is finity, or the familiar formed world of duality.

As I believe I've told you before, void feels more like this than like a bottomless pit:

At least that's what 5-meo feels like to me. But you have to understand that it's formless. It has no color or shape. It's utterly empty. Pure consciousness.

[Arman]

Few questions for anyone with the experience:

Is one more likely to have the full infinity/breakthrough experience by smoking than snorting? Also how much does 30mg look like physically as a line? Is it one thin line? More?

How much does 30mg or an other amount end up in terms of vapor inhalations? Like to have DMT breakthroughs I know sometimes you'd need to light, take in as much as you can, exhale, then continue to vaporize and inhale again. Can a full does of 5meo be smoked in one hit? - Also does it give you at least a few short seconds to put your pipe down and away from you? 

Is the rectal route done by dissolving it with water and then using a syringe? 5meo is probably one of the few drugs I'd try that route since it's worth doing it right and I think rectal administration generally comes on smoother than sublingual. It's the closest thing to an IV experience with some drugs. Plus anytime asks you about how you experienced becoming infinity you can tell them you put something in your butt. 

[cetus]

@Leo Gura

Does 5meo come in a patch yet?

Edited January 27, 2017 by cetus56

[outlandish]

9 minutes ago, Arman said:

Few questions for anyone with the experience:

Is one more likely to have the full infinity/breakthrough experience by smoking than snorting? Also how much does 30mg look like physically as a line? Is it one thin line? More?

How much does 30mg or an other amount end up in terms of vapor inhalations? Like to have DMT breakthroughs I know sometimes you'd need to light, take in as much as you can, exhale, then continue to vaporize and inhale again. Can a full does of 5meo be smoked in one hit? - Also does it give you at least a few short seconds to put your pipe down and away from you? 

I can't answer your question about smoking vs. snorting because I haven't taken smoking it all the way, but it does seem like from reports that both are effective, just different.

Regarding dosages, with 5-MeO-DMT and any pure psychedelic, you really must use a scale to measure your dose. Please get one! Otherwise you're just rolling the dice, because it's impossible to accurately eyeball a dose of this stuff. You can buy a scale that's good enough for about $20 on amazon, or a better one for under $80. 

@cetus56 No it doesn't come in a patch, and that wouldn't be a very good ROA for it either.

 

Edited January 26, 2017 by outlandish

[Arman]

2 minutes ago, outlandish said:

Regarding dosages, with 5-MeO-DMT and any pure psychedelic, you really must use a scale to measure your dose. Please get one! Otherwise you're just rolling the dice, because it's impossible to accurately eyeball a dose of this stuff. You can buy a scale that's good enough for about $20 on amazon, or a better one for under $80. 

For sure. That's a solid statement. I was curious as to how much it looks physically more in regards to how taxing it is on the sinuses. I agree though, not weighing and dosing 5meo is playing with fire. 

Edited January 26, 2017 by Arman

[outlandish]

@Arman Hard to describe how big the line is cause it depends how fat you make it. It doesn't look that big, but it is taxing on the sinuses. I prefer dealing with some sinus pain, than the sketchy feeling I have trying to vape the freebase.

One thing that's helped me a lot with the sniffing route is this: After sniffing it I lay down on my back and get my head tilted back a bit using a pillow under my shoulders and neck. This made a world of difference for me, somehow it really reduces the pain and helps prevent post-nasal drip. 

After the session, I rinse my sinuses out with some salty warm water to clean them out. There's no sinus pain after doing this, and the next day it feels like nothing happened.

[Leo Gura]

This is exactly 30mg of 5-meo HCL:

As you can see, not a large quantity. But that dose will knock you to floor and your life will never be the same again.

[cetus]

30 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

As I believe I've told you before, void feels more like this than like a bottomless pit:

I guess that picture I had presented conjured up dark thoughts of a bottomless pit. I really don't know where that idea came from. But it was identical to what you describe. Minus the light but what does that matter. As the Tao Te Ching says "pregnant with all possibilities".

[Hunter Arrington]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

@AlwaysBeNice You CAN smoke HCL, you just wouldn't want to it. If you're looking to smoke 5-meo, you want freebase.

BTW, it's pretty easy to convert freebase to HCL, and HCL to freebase at home with some basic solvents.

Smoking 5-meo is incredibly fast-acting, and it will hit you like a freight train.

Snorting is gentler, although it still gets crazy-intense after 10 minutes.

HCL can also be used sublingually and rectally. Both methods are worth experimenting with, as snorting tends to waste substance as it drips down your throat. It's not easy to get a full dose by snorting unless you have experience manipulating your nose and really massaging it into the nostrils for a good 10 minutes.

Don't try to snort freebase, it will burn like hell.

My preferred RoA is one that's completely fool-proof, always consistent, and wastes zero substance. Both smoking and snorting are not ideal in this regard.

My best guess is that rectal is the best RoA. But I haven't tested it yet.

Let us know! 

[Tancrede Pouyat]

Some people report only being transported in heaven and becoming one with God. WITHOUT FEAR! WITHOUT SUFFERING! Without anything but pure bliss. Are they just really experienced with 5-MeO and spirituality that they trust the experience that much? Could you tell us more about this?

[Leo Gura]

@Tancrede Pouyat I can't speak for other people's experiences.

I've only ever had positive experiences with 5-meo. The tricky part is the come-up and the surrender. After the ego surrenders, there's no suffering. Can't imagine what would happen if the ego refused to surrender. That thought alone makes me surrender.

But even though there is no suffering, there is still existential terror. At least for me.

[Psychonaut]

@Leo Gura I'm not sure about the rectal administration. I'm reading conflicting reports where some say there is MAOI activity in the rectum and it has to be combined with an inhibitor and other people are just plugging it. The only reason I'm intrigued by this ROA is that I wouldn't have to sit for the duration of the trip to prevent Gods juice from running down my throat and giving me a bad time as soon as I lie down. 

If that is your powder than you might want to try to make it even finer. It seems like there are some small lumps in it. I have found that if I spend a couple of minutes cutting the powder with a knife on the mirror till it is like powdered sugar it absorbs much quicker into the nose. The bigger lumps dont get absorbed that well or sometimes not at all.

[Leo Gura]

@Psychonaut I know for a fact that N,N-DMT Fumarate and many other psychedelics can be plugged, so MAOI activity can't be a factor. Just don't plug it super deep. MAOI activity is in the intestines, not in the rectum from what I understand.

Plugging seems like the best RoA for many psychedelics. Including N,N-DMT I suspect. I would much rather plug N,N-DMT than smoke it. But don't be plugging freebase. You should only plug salts.

For some psychedelics, like 2C-B, plugging is MORE potent than oral dosing or snorting. So start low.

And never take 5-meo orally.