The 5-MeO-DMT Mega-Thread

[outlandish]

Microscoops are problematic without proper calibration, here's why:

Microscoops are labelled "5mg" "10mg" and so on, but that doesn't mean they will scoop 5mg or 10mg of 5-MeO-DMT. You need to calibrate them to find out how much a scoop of a given powder weighs, and in order to do that, you need a scale, or at least reference someone else's calibration with the exact same batch of the exact same product - as powders can vary in density depending on batch and form.

@Leo Gura please please mention this when you recommend these microscoops, otherwise you're gonna have people underdosing/overdosing from erroneously measuring their doses by the label on the scoop. It will just amplify confusion when you get people making this mistake and reporting doses on here.

A $30 American Weigh scale is more than accurate enough for stuff in the milligram range, and will work consistently on all of the tryptamines in all their forms and batches. A $620 lab scale will absolutely be more dependable than scoops.

[nowimhere]

37 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

A $1 dollar microscoop is easier and dare I say even more accurate.

Scales are so overrated. Mircoscoops are the way to go when dosing tiny amounts.

Different substances have different molecular weight/per volume . For example DPT will be a different weight than 5 MEO per volume. 

Freebase will have a different weight than HCL per same volume. 

But hey, if it works for you it works for you!

I found scoops for like $50 on amazon (you Americans get everything cheaper lol)  So just wanted to invest in a good quality scale, as I'll also be building my own nootropic stacks. Which will also have different weight per (nootropic) compared to MEO. I think it was a damn good investment. But again, if scoops work for you, that's great too. 

Edited June 24, 2019 by nowimhere

[Leo Gura]

Of course microscoop measurements are all relative per substance.

What you do is start with a 1 scoop dose. See how that feels for you, then bump it up to 1.5 or 2 scoops next time.

Of course this has to be done each time anew for each new substance.

Once you are familiar with your substance, counting in terms of scoops rather than milligrams becomes easy and accurate.

There are few substances that I have heard of where one 10mg microscoop will be way too much. Especially if you're plugging it.

I have found milligram scales to be not sensitive enough. I can throw 10mg on the scale, then double that dose and it will still say 10mgs!

[nowimhere]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I have found milligram scales to be not sensitive enough. I can throw 10mg on the scale, then double that dose and it will still say 10mgs!

Haha fair enough !  With all the research I did on a LOT of scales, included the AWS that everyone loves here had a >0.005 discrepancy. 

This is why I said fuck it and just bought a laboratory scale, with no discrepancies. Also, I found that 1mg makes a big difference, and the only way to correctly weigh that is with a scale. So just got the absolute best one I could find. (And got a deal on it.. bonus !)

I understand how not everyone will be able to afford a laboratory scale. It was just too good a deal (talked the guy down from the $250 he was offering for) to pass up. So I went for it. And I'm happy with that investment. I'll have it for all psychedelics moving forward. 

But again, since that's not a option for everyone , I can see how you suggest scoops. That also makes sense. 

Scales aside...

@Leo Gura After your non duality breakthrough (imagination edition) has your opinion on the "law of attraction" changed?

I found with this trip "I" was able to go "into" the godhead more, with more intention, using only "my" imagination. And in afterglow confirmed the power of the law of attraction. At least, that was "my" experience. 

Edited June 24, 2019 by nowimhere

[outlandish]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course microscoop measurements are all relative per substance.

What you do is start with a 1 scoop dose. See how that feels for you, then bump it up to 1.5 or 2 scoops next time.

Of course this has to be done each time anew for each new substance.

Once you are familiar with your substance, counting in terms of scoops rather than milligrams becomes easy and accurate.

There are few substances that I have heard of where one 10mg microscoop will be way too much. Especially if you're plugging it.

I have found milligram scales to be not sensitive enough. I can throw 10mg on the scale, then double that dose and it will still say 10mgs!

Yes if you titrate it like that, it's a fine, safe and consistent method. But you get into problems when someone comes on here and says "I took 15mg of 5-Meo last night". What do they mean by 15mg? When people start reading these doses, and then using their own scoop on their personal batch, you're adding two or three variables that don't need to be there.

I have never had a scale as bad as you describe, and I haven't noticed that to be a common complaint about scales. I really think you've had some bad luck with scales. In the worst case when my batteries get low, my scale will vary by up to 3mg. I have a set calibration weights to confirm this, and I use them every time, and they're dead on every time I use my scale (unless the batteries start to get weak). My scale isn't fancy, I spent $60 on it or something, and people with the even cheaper Gemini-20 seem to generally love it.

[Tom T]

@Leo Gura  your mg scales must be broken. I personally use mg scales for my doses and my scales are super sensitive to little doses.

 

if anyone is looking for a way to dose id personally recommend these ones https://www.amazon.com/PoLLux-Precision-Portable-MilliGram-Digital/dp/B06XWBH633/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=milligram+scales&qid=1561418087&s=gateway&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1 you can never be sure that you might be sent a faulty one until you get them but my one works fine.

[Leo Gura]

28 minutes ago, nowimhere said:

After your non duality breakthrough (imagination edition) has your opinion on the "law of attraction" changed?

My opinion of LoA changed at long time ago.

[Consilience]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

My opinion of LoA changed at long time ago.

Is there any way you could give a brief summary on how it’s changed? 

For me LoA got weird when I realized the mind is not separate from “physical” reality 

[herghly]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

My opinion of LoA changed at long time ago.

Does this change any of the content on your life purpose course?

[halo]

7 hours ago, nowimhere said:

And in afterglow confirmed the power of the law of attraction.

Weird, because last night I was wondering if it would be possible to "hack" the law of attraction with the use of DPT when Leo mentioned the healing with imagination thing. And wondered if 5-MeO would help with it at all. 

 

Can you elaborate on how you confirmed it?

Edited June 25, 2019 by halo

[BHARATH]

@Leo Gura what is your changed opinion on LOA ?

and whats your opinion on Reality transurfing (Bible of LOA) ?

[nowimhere]

21 hours ago, halo said:

Weird, because last night I was wondering if it would be possible to "hack" the law of attraction with the use of DPT when Leo mentioned the healing with imagination thing. And wondered if 5-MeO would help with it at all. 

 

Can you elaborate on how you confirmed it?

I realized as Leo did that everything is imaginary. Including LOA. LOA is a efficient formula by which you can direct your imagination to get what you want. This appeared to me as mostly a visual "play" if you will (during afterglow) . It's pretty hard to describe what I saw but I gleaned that insight from it. 

[Corpus]

I think its very important to think critically about the utility of the microscoop device for reliably measuring your dose. A volumetric device such as this has scant regard for the density of the material within it and the degree of compression applied to the substance when loading. This will undoubtedly affect the dose; for example powder that's loosely kept in a baggie will be denser if compressed for example by being in ones back pocket and sat upon.

The low cost 0.001g precision scales are much better if the following is borne in mind:

1.The resolution at sub-10mg doses is poor especially if directly put onto the pan;

2.A much more reliable method IME, would be to put a cigarette paper upon the pan to establish its weight (small paper is 47-49mg consistently enough for the brand I use), then remove the paper, ADD the powder onto this paper while it is off the pan and then replace it on said pan to establish the weight. Simple subtraction will give you a pretty reproducible result.

3.Adding the powder to the paper whilst on the pan is more likely to give erratic results; this is just part of the technology of the device.   

[Psychonaut]

Even in baking noone uses volumetric measurements besides Americans. They don't count though because they are fat and eat disgusting food.

Recommending microscoops over a milligram scale makes 0 sense to me. Yes a scale is inaccurate for low doses. My kitchen scale shows 0g until I have at least 5g on there and then jumps to 5g. My milligram scale does the same thing. In fact all scales seem to do that. I usually start at 10mg, so it doesn't matter to me. 

[Javfly33]

3 hours ago, Corpus said:

I think its very important to think critically about the utility of the microscoop device for reliably measuring your dose. A volumetric device such as this has scant regard for the density of the material within it and the degree of compression applied to the substance when loading. This will undoubtedly affect the dose; for example powder that's loosely kept in a baggie will be denser if compressed for example by being in ones back pocket and sat upon.

The low cost 0.001g precision scales are much better if the following is borne in mind:

1.The resolution at sub-10mg doses is poor especially if directly put onto the pan;

2.A much more reliable method IME, would be to put a cigarette paper upon the pan to establish its weight (small paper is 47-49mg consistently enough for the brand I use), then remove the paper, ADD the powder onto this paper while it is off the pan and then replace it on said pan to establish the weight. Simple subtraction will give you a pretty reproducible result.

3.Adding the powder to the paper whilst on the pan is more likely to give erratic results; this is just part of the technology of the device.   

Shit, i´ve been trying to do this but I think I have always been doing the number 3.

But i can´t see different between number 2.... What do you mean "replace it on said pan". Sorry because english is not my first language

[Corpus]

^^These scales are better at assessing a static weight rather than gauging dynamic changes in weight so adding powder to the paper on the pan will be less accurate. Also, using the example in my post, be alert to the concept of percentage errors ie paper weighs 48mg and I add what I hope to be 4mg of whatever substance. This takes the total weight to 53mg (this figure assumes a little inherent over-estimation by the device)with the powder comprising (4/53 x100=) 7.5%; the added weight of the paper thereby reduces the possible percentage error compared to say me throwing what I hope to be 4mg onto the pan and it registering as 5mg - a percentage error of 25%.

In simple terms, 1. establish weight of paper  (x mg);2. tare the scale to account for the weight of this so the scale reads 0.000mg; 3.remove paper from scale so the scale registers -x mg;4.add powder to the paper whilst it is OFF the scale; 5.put paper with powder back on the scale and the number of mg shown will be a positive number and reasonable approximation of the weight of the powder. 

[okulele]

1 hour ago, Corpus said:

In simple terms, 1. establish weight of paper  (x mg);2. tare the scale to account for the weight of this so the scale reads 0.000mg; 3.remove paper from scale so the scale registers -x mg;4.add powder to the paper whilst it is OFF the scale; 5.put paper with powder back on the scale and the number of mg shown will be a positive number and reasonable approximation of the weight of the powder. 

Sounds reasonable. Thanks, I have been struggling with the scale

[Leo Gura]

Why is it that I have no problem with microscoops? The right dose every time.

The volume of your substance is not going to change day to day. Just use totally flat scoops and it's very consistent.

Scooping also reduces spills and waste.

[Chi_]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Just use totally flat scoops and it's very consistent.

On 6/24/2019 at 11:46 PM, Leo Gura said:

 

By flat scoops do you mean take a full scoop of the substance and then flatten it out at the top with something to get a hemisphere volume? I don't know if I explained that properly, hope you get the idea 

[Leo Gura]

@Chi_ Yes, but when you flatten it don't push it down into the scoop, slide off the pile lightly sideways.