The 5-MeO-DMT Mega-Thread

[Arhattobe]

@Salvijus ❣️

The subconsious mind, and our karmic body has an immense amount of impressions or karma if you will that it stores and carries with it.

One’s perception, understanding, reflection interpretations, experiences and conclusions are all bound by the limitations of our karma.

I’ll try to explain what I mean. 

Lets say there are ten layers in one’s consciousness. This is an analogy so don’t get weird about it. 

If you operate on the 10 level. All of your reality operates on that level.

You aren’t even aware of the lower nine nor can you be. They shape your reality without your conscious awareness.

What is my point. You can have non dual experiences, and be in non duality. Yet an immense amount of layers lay beyond your reference point and continuously delude you. 

What is seemingly non dual truth to the experiencer. Is actually “truth” ingested, that is altered without one’s awareness that becomes yet another delusion.

 

Nirvana is the complete removal and cessation of all these layers. Reality can no longer consciously or subconsciously be altered, the wrong interpretation or implications (emotionally or intellectually) are no longer possible.

It is not an experience. Any experience, even the deepest samadhis and insights operate are bound by the limitations I spoke of.

Hope that was clear. If not I can elaborate.

Edited February 12, 2019 by Arhattobe

[Nahm]

@Arhattobe Imo, that is a very good explanation of something impossible to explain.  The explanation itself can not cross ‘from an 8 to a 4’ “barrior”, so to speak.    Very nice!

If it could, all would be lost; arts, sciences, etc.  So it is, experience only for experience is revealed. Even, and imo especially, the “1 - 10” experience of itself.  

[Arhattobe]

@Nahm thanks man ❣️

[Arhattobe]

@Serotoninluv Thanks ❣️

& it’s very true. The subconsious is where the majority of our coping mechanisms, unquestioned realities, modes of being and mechanisms of functioning lie that greatly distort reality without our awareness.

According to Buddhism. Theravada buddhism to be specific. It can take lifetimes after stream entry to fully eradicate all karmic impressions.

[Nahm]

@Arhattobe The cycle of lifetimes is a lesson for now, it is not intended to imply a past & future. Therefore, the same goes for karma. 

[Arhattobe]

@Nahm No. Again non duality, stream entry, what you think enlightenment is. Do not rid one of ones karmic impressions nor subconsious limitations. 

What you see as “truth” is distorted by layers of unresolved issues, lack of true self awareness, escapism, and a number of other issues, that greatly distort in emotion, meaning and implication what you have experienced.

 

Edited February 12, 2019 by Arhattobe

[Space]

Whats the reccommended amount of time that we should wait between 5-MeO trips? Days or weeks?

[Leo Gura]

9 hours ago, Salvijus said:

This is it. This is the difference between what Bhuddhists call nirvana and enlightenment in this forum.

When all actions and reactions cease. This is what they call as the ultimate state. Unless there's no more movement inside you. You will be reborn again and again. 

To brake the cycles of life and death one must dissolve all karma, aka all movement. And reach perfect equanimity.

You don't need to break the cycles of life to realize God or experience Nirvana.

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That's what dissolusion means. That's what nirvana or Mukti or cease to exist means. In this state of enquanimity sadhguru says 99%leave their body because they can't remain anymore in this life. Only kriya yogis know how to stay.

Sounds extremely self-serving to say this.

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@Leo Gura if you say that you reached the ultimate then you would've left your body. 

Stop assuming this. It is a false assumption.

God and Nirvana can both be realized without leaving your body.

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Perfect equanimity comes way after nondual state of consciousness.

Yes, so what?

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because all experience is your making. It's your karma. When you dissolve karma there is no more experience. No feelings. No thoughts. No you. No movement. Unless you're a kriya yogi, you leave your body that's it.

I'm aware that I could be somewhere wrong because it's not coming from the experience it's coming from knowledge. But one thing is clear to me. 5meo will not dissolve your karma at all.

Again, you are conflating many things here and lack an integral understanding of the differences between various ways of speaking about the same things.

You are just assuming that 5-MeO-DMT cannot dissolve karma. You in fact do not know.

Be careful with listening to Sadhguru without validating the things he says. He is never giving you the full picture but partial perspectives based on his limited life experiences.

Sadhguru has not done 5-MeO-DMT so he does not know what it can or cannot do, or how it changes the traditional yoga path. New technologies require re-thinking old orthodox models of enlightenment. Be careful with your assumptions.

If you have not done breakthrough doses of 5-MeO, best to stay humble about it.

[Arhattobe]

self realisation and nirvana are not the same thing.

[Nahm]

2 hours ago, Arhattobe said:

@Nahm No. Again non duality, stream entry, what you think enlightenment is. Do not rid one of ones karmic impressions nor subconsious limitations. 

What you see as “truth” is distorted by layers of unresolved issues, lack of true self awareness, escapism, and a number of other issues, that greatly distort in emotion, meaning and implication what you have experienced.

 

Love to clear this up but I don’t want to muddy this thread anymore than we have already. Make a thread about it if you’re interested. 

[Arhattobe]

@Nahm I was mostly saying that for the sake of those reading. I know your stance won’t change. So let’s leave it at that for now:)

[outlandish]

1 hour ago, Space said:

Whats the reccommended amount of time that we should wait between 5-MeO trips? Days or weeks?

Tolerance resets quickly with 5-MeO-DMT, so physically you should be ready within hours or a day.

@Leo Gura seems to recommend going into it fairly regularly if you're ready and up for it, hopefully he'll speak for himself on the matter.

I might be a bit more conservative, and feel that  once a week is about the maximum frequency I'd ever recommend. The most important thing is that your previous experience is adequately integrated from one session to the next.

To me, integration means that I have implemented the insights I've gained from the previous session, and am ready to build on them, or look from a new angle. In practice, at this point in my life, integration takes me weeks or months.

There is merit in going for one deep session after another in quick succession, with intent and intensity, so this is something you ultimately have to figure out for yourself. It probably depends a lot on where you are at in your life.

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Space said:

Whats the reccommended amount of time that we should wait between 5-MeO trips? Days or weeks?

The bottleneck isn't tolerance, it's your ability to integrate the insights.

You could do it daily, but the mind won't be able to handle it after a while.

You wanna make sure you're in the mood for it. Don't force things too much. Listen to your heart. Don't try to enforce a rigid schedule on your heart.

[Space]

@outlandish @Leo Gura Ok cheers guys, thanks for the feedback

[Shin]

Leo said in his last video that getting a preview of enlightenment can hinder your progress greatly, yet at the same time he still say s that we all should take 5 meo in all his recent videos.

?

[Enlightenment]

@Shin There is a huge difference between high dose experience but still sub breakthrough, and actually going all the way to the Godhead

Edited February 13, 2019 by Enlightenment

[KrackJack]

On 2/13/2019 at 3:00 AM, Leo Gura said:

You don't need to break the cycles of life to realize God or experience Nirvana.

Sounds extremely self-serving to say this.

Stop assuming this. It is a false assumption.

God and Nirvana can both be realized without leaving your body.

Yes, so what?

Again, you are conflating many things here and lack an integral understanding of the differences between various ways of speaking about the same things.

You are just assuming that 5-MeO-DMT cannot dissolve karma. You in fact do not know.

Be careful with listening to Sadhguru without validating the things he says. He is never giving you the full picture but partial perspectives based on his limited life experiences.

Sadhguru has not done 5-MeO-DMT so he does not know what it can or cannot do, or how it changes the traditional yoga path. New technologies require re-thinking old orthodox models of enlightenment. Be careful with your assumptions.

If you have not done breakthrough doses of 5-MeO, best to stay humble about it.

@Leo Gura With all respect, I believe you are misunderstanding the term Karma.

What Sadhguru or any genuine teacher is talking about is enlightenment, and what you are talking about is "enlightening experience" by using 5-MeO-DMT  which is not permanent.

 

At some level Karma is the basis of the body or to be more specific, basis of holding the life (consciousness) within the body. It's continuously being worked upon and new karma may or may not be generated based on how a person conducts himself or herself.

On the other hand, any drug or specifically 5-MeO-DMT is an external chemical which frees the experience seat (can relate to Pineal gland)  from the Karmic substance of multiple sheaths of body - giving the temporary enlightenment experience.

 

 

 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, KrackJack said:

what you are talking about is "enlightening experience" by using 5-MeO-DMT  which is not permanent.

Yes, it's not permanent. But that does not make it any less true.

It is precisely what it promises: total enlightenment for 60 minutes.

To say that it is somehow not "real" enlightenment because it only lasts 60 minutes is a mistake. That's a judgment your ego is making. It is simply a fact that you can have an enlightenment which lasts 60 minutes. Careful with how you judge that.

Sadhguru holds a week-long retreat which is specifically designed to give participants a short glimpse of enlightenment using yogic techniques. This is a peak experience of God which passes. Yet it is still valid and valuable, otherwise why would he hold such a retreat?

5-MeO-DMT is just a more efficient way of doing exactly that. It doesn't require a week, and it will take you deeper than a week-long retreat ever could.

If you want to define the word "enlightenment" to only apply to permanent awakening, you can do that. But then you still have to allow that God can be fully realized non-permanently for 60 minutes. Realizing the Truth is independent of time or permanence. Whether it lasts for 10 seconds or 100 years, Truth is Truth.

Confusion is created when people insist that there is only one right way to access Truth (their way). In fact, there are hundreds of ways to access Truth. Each come with their own pros and cons. The chief con of yoga is that it takes YEARS to deliver God realization. It takes so long that 95% of practitioners will quit before they get there. 5-MeO-DMT addresses this problem beautifully.

[Leo Gura]

12 hours ago, DrMobius said:

@Leo GuraHow did you stumble upon 5-MeO and what exactly convinced you of trying such a radical psychedelic?

Was it your first psychedelic?

I was listening to an obscure podcast about psychedelics. One of the guests (I think it was Martin Ball) mentioned that 5-MeO-DMT creates total loss of ego. As soon as I heard that, I immediately knew this was the most important psychedelic to try.

After I read some Reddit reports of people not liking 5-MeO-DMT because it was too much of a mindfuck and not fun, my conviction doubled. This was clearly the most important psychedelic.

The truth is very easy to suss out: it always lies behind a curtain of fear.

[Tetcher]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, it's not permanent. But that does not make it any less true.

It is precisely what it promises: total enlightenment for 60 minutes.

To say that it is somehow not "real" enlightenment because it only lasts 60 minutes is a mistake. That's a judgment your ego is making. It is simply a fact that you can have an enlightenment which lasts 60 minutes. Careful with how you judge that.

Sadhguru holds a week-long retreat which is specifically designed to give participants a short glimpse of enlightenment using yogic techniques. This is a peak experience of God which passes. Yet it is still valid and valuable, otherwise why would he hold such a retreat.

5-MeO-DMT is just a more efficient way of doing exactly that. It doesn't require a week, and it will take you deeper than a week-long retreat ever could.

If you want to define the word "enlightenment" to only apply to permanent awakening, you can do that. But then you still have to allow that God can be fully realized non-permanently for 60 minutes. Realizing the Truth is independent of time or permanence. Whether it lasts for 10 seconds or 100 years, Truth is Truth.

Confusion is created when people insist that there is only one right way to access Truth (their way). In fact, there are hundreds of ways to access Truth. Each come with their own pros and cons. The chief con of yoga is that it takes YEARS to deliver God realization. It takes so long that 95% of practitioners will quit before they get there. 5-MeO-DMT addresses this problem beautifully.

That is nice but the problem is not to have a glimpse of what you are talking about but to conduct your existential thread towards the ultimate.

By existential thread I mean the point of view that stays during the process of birth and death, we can call it soul for common understanding.

By ultimate I mean That thing that we are all searching for, that which will settle us for the rest of eternity. Not  the experiencial eternity like heaven, hell or eternal bliss but actual eternity. Time is illusory so is actual eternity since there is only this moment so it would be more proper to say that the ultimate is this moment getting to absolute stillness.

To stabilize to absolute stillness one important step is to be able to die properly, meaning consciously and blissfully or ecstatically, not panicking or trying to get one more breath. It is unclear whether 5meo helps to that end. Martin Ball seemed pretty advanced but you saw how he panicked when the system went in a certain direction, and that was after he surrendered to permanent 5meodmt effect (as he claims) that would have rendered many mad or dysfunctional. Had he died in this state of sleepless sleepiness it is unclear what it would have meant for his existential thread.

 

Edited February 14, 2019 by Tetcher