The 5-MeO-DMT Mega-Thread

[lostmedstudent]

@GabeN hey! did you end up finding the scoops that leo used in his videos?

i am looking for those as well, i am not sure how it works. like does 1mL = 1mg? or we need to calculate with the density of the substance

 

thanks

[zikzak]

Search "mg scoops" on eBay.. You need a scale for measuring out how much your average spoon is. Gemini 20 is the standard.

1 ml (or less, 0.5 is fine) is how much water you dissolve the substance in.

Edited February 8, 2019 by zikzak

[lostmedstudent]

@zikzak ohhhhhh my god i am so dumb! i never thought of measuring how muhc the substance weigh in a scoop! hahha thanks

but i guess calculating the density works too?.. and saves me a scale?

[zikzak]

No, get a scale. If you are working with 5mwo it's definitely good to have one. They are ass cheap..

[Schahin]

I hear some people here are saying that the experience is the same the Buddhists call Nirvana.

That's actually confusing because Nirvana means to cease to exist and to escape the cycle of constant birth and rebirth.

The Buddhists as I have understood , don't believe Nirvana is a state of Love,but it's just they ultimate peace as we cease to exist and therefore are in no longer need to experience the contrast of love and suffering, as love(according to them) is just one more of the feelings that distract us from true Nirvana and the end of the cycle.

So what would you guys think, why do you call the 5 Meo experience the same as Nirvana?

Nirvana in the original sense means non-existence,and the 5 Meo exerience you have seems to be the exact opposite, namely full experience of total existence.

Edited February 11, 2019 by Schahin

[Enlightenment]

@Schahin Totally agree

And this may be uncomfortable to some people here but Nirvana is the cessation of consciousness like anesthesia, no experience, nothing. From Ajahn Brahm's book:

Quote

One can read in modern Buddhist literature that enlightenment is nothing more than a passive submission to the way things seem to be (as distinguished from the way things truly are, seen only after jhāna). Or that the unconditioned is merely the easily accessible mindfulnessin-the-moment, within which anything goes—absolutely anything. Or that the deathless state is simply a nondual awareness, a rejection of all distinctions, and an affirmation that all is one and benign. The supreme goal of Buddhism then becomes little more than the art of living in a less troubled way, a hopeless surrender to the ups and downs of life, and a denial of dukkha as inherent in all forms of existence. It is like a neurotic prisoner celebrating his incarceration instead of seeking the way out. Such dumbed-down Dhamma may feel warm and fuzzy, but it is a gross understatement of the real nibbāna. And those who buy into such enchanting distortions will find they have bought a lemon.

 

Edited February 11, 2019 by Enlightenment

[FredFred]

@Enlightenment Nirvâna isn't the cessation of consciousness. The definition of Nirvâna is "extinction", the extinction of all desires. When all human desires fade away, all you're left with is awareness/consciousness of the present moment. 

[Enlightenment]

@FredFred Nirvana is also the cessation of all suffering and dukkha is present in all forms of existence (yes, including non-dual Brahman). Out like a light, extinction. You don't get off the wheel by going to some other realm, but by turning the switch off.

There are more of these meditation heavyweights that would confirm that there is no experience in Nibbana.

[Arhattobe]

@FredFred consciousness is part of the 12 dependent origination chain that is broken upon the moment of nibbana. It too is a fabrication. A delusion. 

In Theravada Buddhism at least. Which is the oldest and least distorted form of Buddhism. 

Edited February 11, 2019 by Arhattobe

[zikzak]

5meo potentially "just" gives you the possibility to experience consciousness before it's (seemingly) split. It's not a given that you get this experience though.

 

hahin

[outlandish]

2 hours ago, zikzak said:

5meo potentially "just" gives you the possibility to experience consciousness before it's (seemingly) split. It's not a given that you get this experience though.

Well put

[Leo Gura]

@Schahin Your understanding of Buddhism and Nirvana is limited.

Yes, Nirvana is to cease to exist, which is identical to pure existence, which is identical to God, which is identical to Nothingness, which is identical to Buddha-mind, which is identical to Love, which is identical to Truth, which is identical to 5-MeO-DMT.

Death is Nirvana/Heaven. Death is a dip into the infinite ocean of pure consciousness.

The ego cannot properly understand this because it thinks death is terrible.

There is no such thing as non-existence! When you say non-existence what you're really talking about is the end of the ego. Which was unreal to begin with, so nothing is really lost!

5-MeO can reveal all this to you, and more!

If you ground Buddhism up into a fine snortable powder, it would be 5-MeO-DMT.

P.S. Consciousness is already nothing, so it needs no cessation, nor can it be ceased. There is only consciousness, only nothing. You guys are confused because you have not yet reached ultimate nonduality, the ultimate unification of formlessness with form. Form is not other than "cessation". Whatever deep sleep state you are imagining is not other than the waking state you are in right now.

You are not properly understanding Buddhism because Buddhism cannot be properly understood without full nondual awakening. Buddhism is teaching extremely advanced things which even most Buddhists do not fathom. How could they? You cannot read this stuff in a book. And meditation is rarely enough. As the Buddha said, no one will understand.

[Enlightenment]

@Leo Gura

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what you claim is that you need to have the experience, self validate it, and this is the key to discovering the Truth, and if you have experience and refuse to self validate it - you're deeply confused

Hamliton Morris after a very high dose of 5-MeO is even more interested in materialistic paradigm : 

Is there anything and if so what would have to happen in order to convince you otherwise, change your mind? Are you open to change your mind in the future perhaps by having even more powerful self-validating experience, seeing proof of increased brain activity on 5-MeO, seeing enough people that go through 5-MeO experience, having all the correlates of deep enlightenment (so we can confirm that somebody is enlightened) and then not claiming that they know the Truth?

Do you take a possibility that one day you would go out (like you go to sleep every day) and just never wake up? Unless we get suck into Solipsism (which is unfalsifiable btw), we have to acknowledge that when we go out, other people still have an experience of being them.

I think that Nirvana as no experience is even more radical than 5-MeO experience. Also, you go out like a light every day and somehow you don't take it as truth, don't pay attention to it, isn't it a confirmation bias?

Have you ever tried to notice that feeling of truth is just a feeling in your body and can be noted with mindfulness?

BTW I'm not a materialist, I just like to inquiry in this way to not self delude myself and yes I've had experience of unitary consciousness

Edited February 12, 2019 by Enlightenment

[Leo Gura]

@Enlightenment There are many ways to half-ass enlightenment. There is a lot of depth to enlightenment. Many people only lick the surface and assume they understand when they really don't. Sam Harris is one such example. At deeper levels of awakening the materialist paradigm is entirely expunged to the point where it is silly to even talk about it or argue for it.

I have experienced Nirvana. I have experienced total absolute consciousness and Truth. This is a radical claim and I can understand why you might doubt me. But it doesn't matter because Truth is Truth and nothing more can be said of it. Nor do I care whether you believe me or not. Nor does it matter if you do believe me. Either you understand it or you don't. It's way beyond any kind of notions of proof or validation or "changing your mind".

If you seriously question the materialist paradigm you will see that it unravels faster than a mangy hand-knit sweater. This does not even require enlightenment. Materialism is rife with contradiction. Just question it. Give it a try. What is matter? What is energy? What is a brain? What is experience? What is science? What is knowledge? What is proof? How do you know science isn't a hallucination?

I don't just self-validate, I cross-reference 100s of the highest quality sources across all disciplines and traditions. You guys are not understanding just how important that is.

Let's talk after you've cross-referenced at least 100 books on spirituality and nonduality. And while you're at it, try cross-referencing your experiences with 20 gurus. The chief problem is that people simply lack a basic educational framework when it comes to enlightenment and spirituality. Because there do not yet exist sources which provide such an integral framework to lots of people. Because our education system is still in the Dark Ages.

What you hear me talking about is cutting-edge stuff which will only become mainstream and normalized a few hundred years in the future, once we're all dead. Then it will all be taken for granted and treated as totally obvious and unquestionable. But until then, it will seem like quackery because the way you judge the validity of knowledge is purely through social proof. Because of laziness. You expect knowledge to be free and easy, when it is the opposite.

[Schahin]

i have understood Buddhists saying that Nirvana is not a state that contains love. 

But that love is just another "feeling" that keeps us in the cycle of rebirths. Part of the illusion.

It doesn't mean Buddhists are right though.

Maybe the ultimate answer lies seriously In the glands of a misterious toad and by the reaction of your experiences it seems like it.

But then that is probably not the same as the Nirvana the Buddhists talk about.

Because as far as I know most Buddhists also don't talk about God or love too much, they seem more focused on meditating so much to realize how to exit existence and most of them come to the conclusion that life and existence is suffering and love and hatred or anger or just mere feelings that keep you in this cycle.

But man I am just asking here because I am curious, I don't know too much about Buddhism but this is as far as I have understood it.

 

I don't know how to untag your two names here @Leo Gura@FredFred

[Leo Gura]

@Schahin Nirvana is pure Love.

You have to understand that enlightened masters leave many of the best things unsaid. Which often creates confusion. Zen undersells and under-explains enlightenment, for example, to the point of deception.

I spoil you guys with over-explaining everything.

See my video: What Is Love?

Love is not what you think it is. We are talking about Platonic love here, not romantic love.

One of the great things about psychedelics is that they open you to Platonic love in a way that Zen meditation may not.

Keep in mind that there are many facets to God and few people or teachings have integrated them all. Many spiritual teachers simply haven't accessed all the facets. They are not easy to access and you could easily miss a facet without knowing it.

[How to be wise]

@Leo Gura Are there an infinite number of facets? 

Seems like it because every question can lead to a different mystical insight.

[Enlightenment]

@Leo Gura

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

One of the great things about psychedelics is that they open you to Platonic love in a way that Zen meditation may not.

I don't know if you have ever reached a state called mental pliancy (I'm assuming not, based on how you talk about your monkey mind) where meditation is effortless because attention, placed anywhere, stays there because there is nothing in the mind to distract you. From that point unification of the mind continues, and as it happens "Platonic love" increases. Base state of a unified mind is love. Dalai Lama said that "equanimity is a root of loving-kindness", but then as equanimity increases to reach perfect equanimity (Nibbana), when object arise in consciousness and mind for the first time doesn't react to it with any aversion or desire - consciousness ceases and there is no experience. 

And all your claims make perfect sense if we subscribe to solipsism, then there is nothing to question really.

Also, I think even a lot of neuroscientist would agree that we are "Gods" in our model of the world since everything we perceive by their understanding happens in our highly constructed model of the world, so in a sense, we never truly see an outside world but live in a world "created" by us.

 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, How to be wise said:

@Leo Gura Are there an infinite number of facets? 

Seems like it because every question can lead to a different mystical insight.

No, not an infinite number of facets.

Of course you could consider every object in the universe to be a facet of God, but that's not what I mean when I say "facets of God". I am talking about facets of the Godhead, so to speak. God in it's purest form as opposed to God in disguise. There are not infinite facets there. Maybe a dozen or two at most. There is nothing special about the number of them. It's just a way the human mind carves it up, so don't take it too literally. God does not literally have 12 facets.

19 minutes ago, Enlightenment said:

@Leo Gura

I don't know if you have ever reached a state called mental pliancy (I'm assuming not, based on how you talk about your monkey mind) where meditation is effortless because attention, placed anywhere, stays there because there is nothing in the mind to distract you. From that point unification of the mind continues, and as it happens "Platonic love" increases. Base state of a unified mind is love. Dalai Lama said that "equanimity is a root of loving-kindness", but then as equanimity increases to reach perfect equanimity (Nibbana), when object arise in consciousness and mind for the first time doesn't react to it with any aversion or desire - consciousness ceases and there is no experience.

This does not really contradict anything I said. It's just an alternative framing.

That point where all consciousness ceases and there is no experience is precisely identical with this experienced moment right now. Experience is not an obstacle to total nondual consciousness. You can be in total nondual consciousness without experience or with experience.

Also, how your mind reacts or doesn't react is a secondary thing. Your mind might react well or terribly and it doesn't really change the nature of the Absolute. Equanimity is usually a separate thing you must train. You can experience the Absolute without equanimity. You could be freaking the fuck out (as many people do on psychedelics).

It is best to distinguish the training of one's mind from insight into the Absolute. You can have one without the other and vice versa. Both are important but also distinct.

Personally, my mental training is not that good, but my insight is more advanced than most hardcore meditators. Because insight is what I care about most and because I cheated (using 5-MeO-DMT). Without 5-MeO-DMT it would have taken me 40 years to gain the insight I have now. And of course I can continue to do mental training.

[Salvijus]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 

Also, how your mind reacts or doesn't react is a secondary thing. Your mind might react well or terribly and it doesn't really change the nature of the Absolute. Equanimity is usually a separate thing you must train. You can experience the Absolute without equanimity. You could be freaking the fuck out (as many people do on psychedelics).

It is best to distinguish the training of one's mind from insight into the Absolute. You can have one without the other and vice versa. Both are important but also distinct.

.

This is it. This is the difference between what Bhuddhists call nirvana and enlightenment in this forum.

When all actions and reactions cease. This is what they call as the ultimate state. Unless there's no more movement inside you. You will be reborn again and again. 

To brake the cycles of life and death one must dissolve all karma, aka all movement. And reach perfect equanimity.

That's what dissolusion means. That's what nirvana or Mukti or cease to exist means. In this state of enquanimity sadhguru says 99%leave their body because they can't remain anymore in this life. Only kriya yogis know how to stay.

@Leo Gura if you say that you reached the ultimate then you would've left your body. 

Perfect equanimity comes way after nondual state of consciousness.

And nirvana is not love. When you're in tune with life then everything is love. But but nirvana is not about being in tune with cosmos it's about having no experience at all

because all experience is your making. It's your karma. When you dissolve karma there is no more experience. No feelings. No thoughts. No you. No movement. Unless you're a kriya yogi, you leave your body that's it.

I'm aware that I could be somewhere wrong because it's not coming from the experience it's coming from knowledge. But one thing is clear to me. 5meo will not dissolve your karma at all. And every master says that dissolving karma and reaching perfect equanimity is the ultimate. All the other experiences are just entanglment. It could be a trap. Sadhguru says some yogis spend for months in samadhi not moving an inch and they are even further away then an average person from liberation.

@Arhattobe knows a lot about this. It would be nice if you brought some clarity here

 

Edited February 12, 2019 by Salvijus