The 5-MeO-DMT Mega-Thread

[Forestluv]

Trip Report: 5-meo-dmt 28mg. A lesson in nothing.

A couple minutes in, resistance thoughts started to arise such as "Why am I doing this again? I've been using drugs to much lately, it's interfering with my life. It's going to consume my life. These altered realities are going to take over and change me. I'm likely to lose my job". The next minute the 5-meo got stronger and I was still trying to hang on. I started losing sense of meaning - of what is good and bad, of what is healthy and unhealthy. Jumping out a window was no different than taking a pee. Then, panic started seeping in and I struggled. Looking back, it was a struggle to stay sane. A thought went by that I was to experience the horror of 5-meo like I had read online. The trip took a different turn, yet I now know the horror of struggling to maintain sanity with 5-meo.

I'm not sure if I was able to let go or if the 5-meo overpowered me. Yet the tide turned from the horror zone. It was as if white cream was poured into black coffee. At first, the white cream and black coffee are separate. As one starts to stir, there are some white streaks visible within the coffee and the overall color of the coffee starts to turn tan. With more stirring, the cream are coffee are completely mixed as one. Similarly, I started off with dualistic thoughts and concepts. I am a person, there is a chair, meditation is part of spiritual practice, and on and on. As the mixing started, words and ideas stopped making sense. Every word, thought, image, concepts etc. started to get stirred together with all other thoughts, images, concepts and started disappearing. Soon, English didn't make sense. A chair didn't make sense. A word didn't make sense. Seeing a tree didn't make sense. Hearing a lawnmower didn't make sense. They are started swirling together. Distinctions started disappearing. It felt like I was going insane and I tried to hold on to sanity. Yet, distinctions rapidly began disappearing. The ideas of sanity and insanity swirled away. Ideas of struggle or no struggle swirled away. 

Soon, ALL distinctions swirled away and was mixed together. It was like my brain hard drive got wiped clean. This was NOT like the stillness or emptiness I have experienced during meditation. When all distinctions were mixed together, there was nothing. The concept of nothingness has been difficult for my mind to comprehend. The idea of "one everything" is easier for my mind to hold. I've heard various teachers speak about "nothingness" in different ways. Some say "it's not really like the type of nothing most people imagine". Well, now I have direct experience with nothingness.

When all distinctions disappeared there was nothing. And I mean NOTHING. I did not see anything in my field of view. I did not hear, feel or smell anything. There were no thoughts. There was no me. There was no body, United States, foreign countries, fruit, feminism, gender, people, objects. Nothing. There was no nothing, no emptiness, no stillness, no infinity, no void. Nothing. I did not see empty black or white. I did not see emptiness or transparent. There was no other world. Nothing. 

At about 12min., there was the first appearance of a something. The first slight distinction of something different than a something else. It was very subtle, kinda hazy and amorphous. Then an amazing process began. Gradually, more distinctions began to appear. Shapes started to arise. Sounds started to arise. At first, with low resolution - then with more resolution. Ideas started to appear. Then a sense that there was awareness that was aware of what was arising. Then physical sensations and an idea there is a body. Then an idea of a me. Then images of objects in my living room - the couch and ceiling. Then the idea that I was lying in my living room floor. It was like actually watching a lifetime of programming take place. Totally fascinating. 

I've had nondual experiences, yet there was always some type of consciousness/awareness present. Here, there was no consciousness/awareness. There was nothing to be aware of. There was no observer. It was the appearance of a first something when awareness arose to be aware of it. What could come prior to awareness has been inconceivable to me. I often hear teachers speak of awareness/consciousness - yet rarely do they speak prior to awareness/consciousness. Looking back, the nothingness is so simple. You can't get any simpler. Yet, my mind just can make sense of it. There is a sense of knowing it without being able to fully describe or understand it.

[Leo Gura]

@Serotoninluv Yup, that's Mu.

It cannot be explained because explanation requires distinction/duality.

Sounds like you still haven't experienced infinity though. Infinity is the other side of the Mu coin.

Also, it's important that you have the insight that Mu is not other than everything you see around you right now. Mu is not limited to that null void state. It also includes the entire domain of form and perception. This insight is paramount, otherwise your realization is half-baked.

Quote

"Form does not differ from Emptiness

And Emptiness does not differ from Form.

Form is Emptiness and Emptiness is Form."  -- Heart Sutra

 

[Forestluv]

@Leo Gura

I'm new to this area and I'd like to fully bake this realization if possible. . .  

In that "nothing" there was no appearance of form or perception. There was a first form that arose from the nothingness. Simultaneously, perception arose. There was nothing to perceive before the appearance. Is the *arising* of form and perception the domain of Mu? Or was there an underlying essence of form and perception in the null void?

It seemed like a distinction-less, form-less, perception-less null void in which form and perception arose and gradually developed more distinctions to finally become what can be perceived to be a highly formed reality. Does Mu cover this whole continuum? 

[Leo Gura]

@Serotoninluv Just think about it: nonduality means: not two. So any time you think of two parts to the world, you're not fully nondual yet.

If there was a distinction between the formless state and your present formed perception state, that would be a duality. So you know that cannot be ultimately true.

The final duality to eliminate is the duality between nonduality and duality!

The snake must eat its own tail until nothing remains.

Mu is the formless void state but ALSO the whole shebang: all of formed creation.

Take a moment to look around the room you're sitting in right now. That is none other than Mu.

To be fully nondual is to be conscious of Nothingness all the time, everywhere, no matter if you're in a formless state or eating breakfast. That is true awakening.

[AlwaysBeNice]

Afaik, there is a sort of final awakening when the ego is just dead and self-consciousness is destroyed, so complete spontaneity/no fear, but what strikes me as particularly interesting (as a 'not fully awake person') is that literally every glimpse I've had, sober or drug (or dream) 'induced', roughly 22+ of them, idk, is that all of these (semi)egoless states were all completely and utterly unique.

Though I've had only one of what was a true stillness/nothingness, don't know how much uniqueness can be experienced there.

Really neat. 

[outlandish]

Trip report: 21mg 5-MeO-DMT insufflated. "Multitudinous Head Fuck"

I took the 21mg 5-meo-dmt in two lines, one in each nostril. 1mg more than my previous max. The familiar burn set in and I immediately lay down on my back in a nicely prepared room to let it absorb. 

It hit faster than it ever has before. Maybe within 5 mins I could feel it, in the past it's taken 20-30mins to hit. Hard to gauge exact time when time-perception is dilated like this.

I thought I had 5-MeO DMT figured out! What a fool I am! 

In the past, it has been very deep, monad, ground-state, centering, kensho type experience. This time was like the exact opposite of that. My mind was like a spaghetti machine pouring out multitudinous profound (and not so profound) insights, so rapidly I could barely hang on. It was like a rapidfire machine gun of psychedelic insight, one thing after another, strobing between multiple trains of thought. Monkey-mind revved up and amplified with pattern-breaking psychedelic power. Coupled with all this, I was aware of some intense geometric fractal type visuals, not something I think of as characteristic of 5-MeO-DMT at all. I know nothing.

The mental torrent continued to accelerate until it became too much, and I lost my ability to hold still. Jumped up and began pacing around, lying back down, getting back up, unsettled as I churned through it all.

When it finally started to wind down, I looked at my watch, and a mere 43minutes had elapsed since I put the stuff up my nose! I've done this kind of thing enough that I expected to be surprised, but it's always a shock how much can fit into such a tiny measure of time. I scrambled to jot down some notes as fast as I could while the trip content was still palpable.

All in all it was a weird trip. I actually came out of it with some really good productive insights that I can implement in my life. Most of them are the no-brainers you need to step out of your head to be able to see. The one I'll mention is meditation. It was really obvious that I need to meditate a lot more, it's at the root of all the things I want to improve on in my life. I've been letting my meditation practice slide lately, and this gave me the kick in the butt to get my butt back on the cushion, with determination.

There was so much content in the trip, tragically a lot of it is lost along the way - but of course there's only so much a mind can hang on to in a 45 minute ride.

In the past I've managed to navigate through and past this kind of mental onslaught through breathing, letting go, meditation technique. This has allowed me to break through to a much deeper level. This time I got caught up in the current and went over the waterfall of mental bamboozlement, which ended up being interesting, but not really what I had intended to explore.

Next time I will practice again at a smaller but strong dose, probably 15-18mg, with a stronger meditation habit in place beforehand, and a few other tweaks to my set+setting leading in.

tl;dr: Was unable to set down my mind on 21mg of 5-MeO-DMT. Instead it was turned up all the way to 11, exploding into an unexpected plurality of insight and psychedelia. Will revisit soon at a slightly smaller dose and a calmer mind.

[Leo Gura]

@outlandish

A) Your dose is still too low for the real breakthrough.

B) You are still failing to let go and surrender.

C) Stop snorting this stuff. Plugging is FAR superior.

[Forestluv]

@outlandish This sounds like the type of stuff that may arise during my come-up. The real juice for me is when reality makes no sense and there is no "me" trying to make sense of it. It sounds like you will need a higher dose. I used lower doses to acclimate to the surrender process. I've tried lower doses for general insight work, yet 5-meo is so precious - I don't want to use it on something generic psychedelics can provide.

I've also found plugging to be far superior to snorting.

[outlandish]

@Leo Gura Thanks, I appreciate you taking the time to read that! A few questions:

A) Why do you say so? I've had a real breakthrough on a lower dose. It could have been a fluke, and I'm definitely intent on pushing my dose higher. My gut feeling tells me that 24mg is the dose I want to get to. For now I feel the need to get back on the horse at a lower dose before going back up.

B) Agreed

C) Why is plugging is superior? The sinus burn doesn't bother me, and (hypocritically I know) it feels slightly depraved to stick drugs in my bum. Snorting lines of enlightenment off a mirror? Perfectly fine somehow! Maybe it's time to open my "3rd eye" lol.

Has anyone tried IM?

Thanks for your insight.

edit: @Serotoninluv Thank you for your insight as well. I agree that 5-MeO is too precious for generic psychedelic insight - there's a million psychedelics that can do that. I will be trying higher doses once I re-acclimatize at around 18mg I think, and dial in my mental preparation a bit better.

Edited September 12, 2018 by outlandish
respond to serotoninluv

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, outlandish said:

@Leo Gura A) Why do you say so? I've had a real breakthrough on a lower dose. It could have been a fluke, and I'm definitely intent on pushing my dose higher. My gut feeling tells me that 24mg is the dose I want to get to. For now I feel the need to get back on the horse at a lower dose before going back up.

Just a hunch

With 5-MeO there are breakthroughs and then there are BREAKTHROUGHS.

Quote

C) Why is plugging is superior? The sinus burn doesn't bother me, and (hypocritically I know)

Snorting produces inconsistent dosages as it can easily fail to properly absorb. Dealing with a leaking nose is also a big distraction from the trip.

Plugging is SMOOOOOTH. And lasts twice as long.

Quote

it feels slightly depraved to stick drugs in my bum.

Only to bigoted minds.

Doctors prescribe it all the time.

Once you plug you'll never go back.

[Forestluv]

@DrMobius That is adorable! Do you keep it in the fridge?

[Forestluv]

@outlandish Use a thin syringe- super quick and easy. Sooo much better than snorting. I don’t even consider snorting ever again. I want to try smoking freebase 5-meo tho.

[outlandish]

Thanks for your advice and insight fellas.

14 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

 I want to try smoking freebase 5-meo tho.

I don't think I could do it. Vapourized tryptamines have such an unholy smell to me, I feel like every cell in my body would reject the experience. IM tho... with all the correct filters and technique of course.

 

14 hours ago, DrMobius said:

On a side note, how/where do you guys keep your 5-MeO?

I keep some in storage in the deepfreeze, some on deck at room temperature. Always sealed tight away from moisture, light and locked hidden from naive eyes/hand/mouths.

Nice froggie!

[FredFred]

When starting psychedelics, should one start straight with 5-MeO-DMT or should one work it's way gradually to the top starting with basic psychedelics like psilocybin?

Also first post ever, hello everyone

[Leo Gura]

@FredFred Start with something lighter, like 1g of mushrooms or 120ug of LSD.

5-MeO will freak you the fuck out if you've never done psychedelics. You will not know the difference between life and death on it.

[FredFred]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@FredFred Start with something lighter, like 1g of mushrooms or 120ug of LSD.

5-MeO will freak you the fuck out if you've never psychedelics. You will not know the difference between life and death on it.

 

4 minutes ago, see_on_see said:

Or even less, like 1/4 of that. 35ug of LSD won't make you "trip", but it still has a very definite effect.

120ug can already blow your reality away.

The very first time you have no clue what will happen, so it's better to start as low as possible, and then build up gradually. 

Thanks for the answers!

My only experience with psychedelics are a 25ug 1P-LSD dose. It wasn't very strong, I only got low visuals and even lower audio distortions. It didn't feel like my consciousness shifted at all. Still an interesting experience.

[zikzak]

..or boof some 4-AcO-DMT

[astrokeen]

15 hours ago, DrMobius said:

I'd recommend having a handful of trips with other psychedelics under your bealt before 5-MeO.

Things get fucked up with 5-MeO real fast. Prepare yourself with something else. Once you're comfortable with substances such as LSD, AL-LAD, mushrooms, and such, at medium to high doses, then consider ascending to 5.

Basically, not until you're at ease with madness.

Thank you! This is really helpful.

[archi]

well, I had bufo after rape and kambo and I had a trip but I admit maybe I could get more out of bufo If I had smoked something before. 

Anybody tried dmt (not 5-meo-dmt) anally? 

I think I' going to mix it with 0.5ml of watter and stick it in .

Edited September 17, 2018 by archi

[cirkussmile]

On 9/10/2018 at 11:34 PM, Leo Gura said:

To be fully nondual is to be conscious of Nothingness all the time, everywhere, no matter if you're in a formless state or eating breakfast. That is true awakening.

Including deep sleep ?